A lot of improvements of a Leaf 2015 compared to 2011 ?

[kensiko]

Prices of used Leaf dropped since the cars are getting older. 2011 Leafs are interesting for the price, because I plan on getting a Leaf but upgrade in a few years, mainly due to battery improvement (more range).

The only concern I have is if a Leaf 2015 has many important improvements over the 2011. Because I could lease a 2015. I know there is also battery capacity loss over years so that is something I would have to check if I buy a used one. But other than that? I heard about improvement in heating efficiency, but that's all.

Thanks!

 

[TomT]

Mostly small things like the heater, some controls, things like that... Nothing of any REAL substance IMHO. The so-called Lizard battery is still an unknown so it is difficult to comment on it.

 

[cwerdna]

There are a ton of improvements that began w/the '13 model year.
http://sfbayleafs.org/news/2013/01/2013-nissan-leaf-product-highlights/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://sfbayleafs.org/commentary/2013/09/2013-vs-2011-nissan-leaf-whats-new-whats-gone-whats-changed/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I mentioned the heater at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=351955#p351955" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. I LOVE the Around View Monitor. I like the Bose stereo even though I am NOT a Bose fan. I like having the % state of charge display. I like the heated seats. Heated steering wheel is nice except for its goofy getting temperature behavior of getting too hot and then nothing for awhile... I like having the dedicated heater on/off button. The light in the the charge port area is nice. I LOVE the 6 kW OBC. It lets me pick up charge much more quickly (sometimes at free public charging and at work, also allows me to vacate a space more quickly and start charging much later in the day). I've started charging sessions for '11 and '12 Leafs w/3.3 kW OBCs before and monitored them. I like the B mode (I don't like using Eco). ALL of these didn't exist on the '11.

Can you update your location info via User Control Panel (near top) > Profile (left side)? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

What are your daily driving needs in terms of miles? How much city vs. highway? Will you have the ability to charge at your work/destinations?

A used '11 will have had somewhere between a bit of battery degradation if it resided in say the Seattle area to a TON if it resided in hot climates (e.g. Phoenix) and didn't get replaced.

And, there is the possibility of some slight range improvement with the '13+ Leafs, but it doesn't repro on TonyWilliams' steady speed highway range tests: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=404365#p404365" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

IMHO, if you want to buy used for some reason, buy a '13+ SV or SL w/the packages you want, if any. To me, there were a TON of nice incremental improvements with the '13, some being optional.

Agree on the unknowns of the '15 Leaf's lizard battery. We won't know how much better it is in terms of resisting heat-related degradation until those cars have gone thru at at least 2 Phoenician summers.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Prices of used Leaf dropped since the cars are getting older. 2011 Leafs are interesting for the price, because I plan on getting a Leaf but upgrade in a few years, mainly due to battery improvement (more range).

The only concern I have is if a Leaf 2015 has many important improvements over the 2011. Because I could lease a 2015. I know there is also battery capacity loss over years so that is something I would have to check if I buy a used one. But other than that? I heard about improvement in heating efficiency, but that's all.

Thanks!

Some differences to consider:

• Most (but not all) 2011 LEAFs do not have the "cold weather package", which consists of a battery heater that keeps the battery operational at very cold temperatures (roughly when it gets below zero degrees F), plus steering wheel and seat heaters that reduce the need for the cabin heater.

• The 2015 LEAF will have a heater-off button that allows the CC system to be used without the energy-hog heater coming on. The lack of such a button is a known design defect of the 2011 (and 2012) LEAFs, although it can be fixed with a mod from EVSEupgrade.com.

• The 2015 will come with a 36 month/36k(?) mile bumper-to-bumper warranty, in case something goes wrong. However, the 2011 LEAFs have proven to be pretty reliable, aside from the rapidly declining battery capacity and range.

• The 2015 will come with the "lizard" battery, that is expected to have reduced capacity loss over time, especially in hot weather places.

• A 2015 LEAF will come with, or can be ordered with, a faster 6.0 kW charger that will allow charging to be almost twice as fast at level 2 (240 V) charge stations. The faster charger won't matter much at home — doesn't matter much if it takes 3 hours or five hours when charging overnight — but it is a really big deal when getting opportunity charges from public charge stations while out-and-about.

• The 2015 has a somewhat larger trunk space because the charger that was there in the 2011 has been moved to be under the hood on newer LEAFs.

Whether any of these things is important depends a lot on how far you plan to drive per day and the weather where you live (a 2011 without the cold weather package is not a good choice in places that get really cold in winter, such as Minnesota). It also depends on whether there are any local incentives for the purchase of a new LEAF, in addition to the federal tax credit, if you qualify for that.

If you wish, you can buy the new "lizard" battery for an older LEAF for about $6000, installed, and get many years more service from the car. But unless you can get the 2011 LEAF for a bargain price it likely isn't cost-effective to do that compared to buying/leasing a 2015 LEAF.

All this boils down to "it depends"...

 

[cwerdna]

• A 2015 LEAF will come with, or can be ordered with, a faster 6.0 kW charger that will allow charging to be almost twice as fast at level 2 (240 V) charge stations.

The above statement applies to all '13+ Leafs. It's optional on the '13+ S trim (it's part of the "charge package") while standard on the '13+ SV and SL.

 

[Moof]

Prices of used Leaf dropped since the cars are getting older. 2011 Leafs are interesting for the price, because I plan on getting a Leaf but upgrade in a few years, mainly due to battery improvement (more range).

The only concern I have is if a Leaf 2015 has many important improvements over the 2011. Because I could lease a 2015. I know there is also battery capacity loss over years so that is something I would have to check if I buy a used one. But other than that? I heard about improvement in heating efficiency, but that's all.

Thanks!

If you live in a cold area, get a 2012 or newer if you have anything other than modest commuting in mind. 2012 got the heated seats, 2013+ got the heat pump heater in the SV and SL grades. 2013+ also lets you turn the darn heater off when you just want cabin air on to keep the windows defrosted (or when driving home from a workout when <60F air feels good).

If you plan on dumping it in a few years, then you really have to do some homework as to what will annoy you and what is the better financial option. I intend to keep my used 2011 at least 7-10 years. Basically when the battery degradation get obnoxious for my commuting I will see what the options are and decide if I'd rather put $7k into to for another 10 years of cheap commuting, or bump up to something with more range. My wife's car will come due for replacement before then, so 3-4 years out is when I expect to be looking at a Tesla 3 or Leaf 2.

 

[Deleted member 14724]

• The 2015 LEAF will have a heater-off button that allows the CC system to be used without the energy-hog heater coming on. The lack of such a button is a known design defect of the 2011 (and 2012) LEAFs, although it can be fixed with a mod from EVSEupgrade.com.

I just learned about that from MNL. Came in really handy. I blow the cold air on the windshield from outside when it's not too cold to keep the glass reasonably clear, kicking in the full defrost as needed for less than a minute each time.

 

[Nubo]

It's simple.
Old and busted…
or The New Hotness.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha-uagjJQ9k[/youtube]

 

[cwerdna]

If you live in a cold area, get a 2012 or newer if you have anything other than modest commuting in mind. 2012 got the heated seats

Yep: http://www.autoblog.com/2011/07/19/2012-nissan-leaf-higher-price-tag-standard-equipment/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

It's more efficient to heat the seats than the cabin. Using heated seats means having to use the heater less or less intensely, helping preserve range. One already gets one whammy of slightly reduced battery capacity during the cold coupled w/worse efficiency if there's wet, slushy or snowy pavement. Power hungry heater resistive only heater on '11 and '12, and '13+ S trims hurts even more.

 

[kensiko]

Wow thanks for all this information, it's pretty clear now that 2013 should be the minimum if I plan on using it regularly. To answer your questions, it doesn't make sense to me to buy a Leaf because I work from home. I completed my profile. The heater thing is a big factor. I could possibly negotiate for a killer price with all those differences.

I'm still looking for the Leaf because I want to be part of the game. The Zero was also similar except it's a ##%% of fun to ride. But you see, if I get my hand on a Leaf I will have 3 vehicles sitting in my backyard almost everyday. If ranges increase significantly I could get rid of my Prius in a few years, which is what I expect.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Wow thanks for all this information, it's pretty clear now that 2013 should be the minimum if I plan on using it regularly. To answer your questions, it doesn't make sense to me to buy a Leaf because I work from home. I completed my profile. The heater thing is a big factor. I could possibly negotiate for a killer price with all those differences.

Depends on how far you typically want to drive. If you only go a few miles and range is not an issue, the resistive heater in the older LEAFs and newer S models works fine. And in very cold weather, say -10ºC and lower, the heat pump in the 2013 and later SV/SL models won't be doing you any good since the resistive heater will be taking up most of the heating load.

Also, be aware that the LEAF can be preheated while plugged-in so that you get into a warm car. The SV/SL models with Carwings can also be preheated while unplugged using a computer or smart phone to turn it on, although that will draw energy from the battery. But if range isn't limiting, why not get into a warm car in winter?

 

[kensiko]

Under -10 degrees, I see. That's what it is most of the winter here. So you got a point.

I have no idea where I would like to go with the Leaf if I got one. It all depends on how far it can go safely, I really don't want to be stuck with my baby somewhere. The Prius would still be used for the longer trips.

But, if I take an example here. My father is 40 km from here. It would be great to do the trip without recharging.

 

[dgpcolorado]

...But, if I take an example here. My father is 40 km from here. It would be great to do the trip without recharging.

If you could charge, even at level 1 (120 V) at your father's house you could do that trip easily. If you are trying to do an 80 km round trip in very cold weather, especially in snowy conditions, whether you could make it would depend on your speed (slower is better) and cabin heater use. If there are charge stations along the route even a fairly short round of charging could help if it looks as if you might not make it home. In mild weather with dry roads 80 km ought to be easy even at highway speeds.

You would learn the limits fairly quickly, I would guess.

 

[mwalsh]

Don't forget what you're giving up when passing on a 2011:

Cool button to turn off pedestrian warning sound!
Cool handbrake switch (also available on the 2012)!
Cool ability to pretend you've been a pioneering early-adopter!

 

[nosuchthing]

Don't forget what you're giving up when passing on a 2011:

Cool button to turn off pedestrian warning sound!
Cool handbrake switch (also available on the 2012)!
Cool ability to pretend you've been a pioneering early-adopter!

Front side blinkers...

 

[mwalsh]

Front side blinkers...

No, COOL front side blinkers! :lol:

 

[nosuchthing]

Yep. Those were the (by now) Leaf heady days.
I feel so grown up these days...

 

[abasile]

In Quebec, to avoid "bricking" the battery pack in extreme cold, you definitely should have the Cold Weather Package which most 2011 LEAFs don't have (as stated above). The only real purpose of the battery heater in the Cold Weather Package is to keep the Li-ion battery from freezing solid below -20 C.

Personally, I'm in a somewhat cold climate, but our winter temperatures are not nearly as low as in Quebec or Minnesota. We do lose range in the cold like everyone else, but we don't have to worry about the battery pack freezing.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I would go 2014 or newer cause S models get cruise control and B mode

 

[cgaydos]

Wow thanks for all this information, it's pretty clear now that 2013 should be the minimum if I plan on using it regularly.

Yep. Well, if you care about the faster L2 charger and the more efficient heater. If you don't, then for 2013 you're looking at an S model and in that case you might consider the 2011.

One thing about 2013 is that Nissan shipped many LEAFs without either the rear view monitor or around view monitor. Every other model year has one or the other for all LEAFs - something to watch for with used 2013s. Otherwise 2014 and 2015 are mostly about packaging changes. 2014 got rid of the 80% charge option. 2015 got rid of the option to have both premium and charge package together on an SV.

But otherwise 2014 and 2015 didn't offer much more. Except, of course, the "lizard" battery for 2015, although there is evidence that this was actually introduced earlier to at least some LEAFs.

2011, as someone else pointed out, is the only model year to offer the button to turn off the "beep" when shifted into reverse. The 2011 had a few other quirks - such as the efficiency gauge topping out at 8.0 miles/kWh - that were fixed in 2012. Unless the sticker says "2011CW" it did not have the "Cold Weather" package that has been standard on all LEAFs since 2012 - heated exterior mirrors, seats, steering wheel and battery. Some 2011s have aftermarket heated seats, which was a very popular add-on. And the 2011 manual has the classic wording warning against quick charges or charging to 100% - wording revised then later discarded in subsequent model years.

Personally my next LEAF will be at least 2013, but beyond that I'm not picky. I'm looking forward to a faster L2 charger, better cargo room, the ability to open the charge hatch with the clicker, and not having to answer the question about Carwings data every freaking time I start the car.