Acceptable Battery Loss

[mwalsh]

I find #2 acceptable, but I would have preferred #3.

Though worth saying that never before have I wished I lived in the Pacific Northwest as I do now. However, I do take solace in that the our summers down here for the last couple of years have not been as brutal as they could have been. I obviously hope that's a trend which continues!

Somewhat mad at myself for taking it so much at face value that Nissan had their thermal stuff together when it came to these packs. Though, conversely (and some might say strangely), not so much mad at Nissan. More leaning toward a certain amount of disappointment, I'd say.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I find #2 acceptable, but I would have preferred #3.

Though worth saying that never before have I wished I lived in the Pacific Northwest as I do now. However, I do take solace in that the our summers down here for the last couple of years have not been as brutal as they could have been. I obviously hope that's a trend which continues!

Somewhat mad at myself for taking it so much at face value that Nissan had their thermal stuff together when it came to these packs. Though, conversely (and some might say strangely), not so much mad at Nissan. More leaning toward a certain amount of disappointment, I'd say.

ok, we make you a 2. ya, i stated this on "related" threads that i am literally in shock. its funny because i manually charge and run the pack between 20 to say 60-70% SOC. never used a timer, never used the 80% setting. sounds like a lot of work and its waaaay more than one needs to do but after my ZENN, it all just seems sooo easy!!

but i started charging to 100% for no reason, no reason at all only to see what my GID count was. now, i charge to 100% normally about 5 times a month or so but usually pretty spread out. since i have started charging to 100% more often, i am now seeing 281. have seen it twice in the past 2 weeks when i had never seen it before. mind you, i have seen 280 a bunch of times, but never 281.

but i guess i am charging to 100% because i have a problem believing that my car is essentially new?? ( if you ignore the big scratch on the back when unloading my bike or the stickers on the passenger window applied by my Son or the...) this simply cannot be!

obtw; the weather? 79º and partially Sunny. expectations of Thunderstorms (VERY rare around here, WA State has lowest # of lightning strikes per year recently passing Hawaii...) that will probably not happen. weather is too nice

 

[Stoaty]

Somewhat mad at myself for taking it so much at face value that Nissan had their thermal stuff together when it came to these packs. Though, conversely (and some might say strangely), not so much mad at Nissan. More leaning toward a certain amount of disappointment, I'd say.

Definitely disappointed at this point in time (although my own Leaf is meeting my expectations, I am no longer comfortable recommending the Leaf). I hope Nissan has an ace up their sleeve for 2013 model, otherwise I think things aren't going to go well for the Leaf.

 

[thankyouOB]

i dont have gid meter and have no idea how my pack is doing, other than i seem to still get 6 miles on a bar and the bars remain all there.

Originally, I did the roundtrip 50-mile commute on 8 bars and was happy that I would return home with two bars left and about 20-25 miles on the GOM (charging to 80%).
that would be my only available baseline.

However, I dont do that anymore, as charging is available at work and I use it.
I also take trips to Hollywood to see friends and family in theatre and would be really disappointed if that 65- to 70-mile trip falls out of bounds.

 

[IBELEAF]

#3 my choice, considering I do everything I can to prolong battery life and my mileage isn't high

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

This is hard to answer without a seeing what the later time periods look like. For example 5% degradation in year one and then remaining level for the next 10 years would be great. Also your options 1 and 4 aren't mutually exclusive. But put me down for a 4 (or 1 and 4).

This was all disclosed to us and this was known to be a risk, but we were all so starry eyed at the prospect of finally getting our hands on these cars we were willing to turn a blind eye to the subject. Now the new car honeymoon is over and we are left with the payments and this harsh reality.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

remember all responses assume 20%/5 or 30%/10

So I make u a 1

This is hard to answer without a seeing what the later time periods look like. For example 5% degradation in year one and then remaining level for the next 10 years would be great. Also your options 1 and 4 aren't mutually exclusive. But put me down for a 4 (or 1 and 4).

This was all disclosed to us and this was known to be a risk, but we were all so starry eyed at the prospect of finally getting our hands on these cars we were willing to turn a blind eye to the subject. Now the new car honeymoon is over and we are left with the payments and this harsh reality.

 

[LEAFer]

One order of 4), please.

 

[Stoaty]

I think that rather than having discrete categories for the poll, it would be more meaningful if each person could specify the numbers for one year, two years, and 3 years that would be acceptable. There are only two choices out of 5 that are within the realm of possibility, since the first 3 we know are not likely to be achievable for any battery. You might get as low as 2-3% in a year, but no loss is completely unrealistic. No F-bombs needed or accepted.

 

[mwalsh]

I would like to change my response to add the qualifier "noticeable". I think there has been a threshold of loss that wasn't really visible to us above 281 Gids, and now we are seeing it. What I meant to say is that I would have preferred to still be getting 281 gids for a minimum 18 month period.

 

[TomT]

I'd like number 2 please, but number 4 is probably more reasonable and realistic...

 

[mkjayakumar]

2

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I would like to change my response to add the qualifier "noticeable". I think there has been a threshold of loss that wasn't really visible to us above 281 Gids, and now we are seeing it. What I meant to say is that I would have preferred to still be getting 281 gids for a minimum 18 month period.

none of that was known when you ordered your car. only interested at how fast you expected to lose range.

I think that rather than having discrete categories for the poll, it would be more meaningful if each person could specify the numbers for one year, two years, and 3 years that would be acceptable.

remember this is acceptable loss or what we expected to see. Nissan told us to expect 20% in 5 years, 30% in 10 and all the responses assume we achieve that. since Nissan told us that up front, it would be optimistic to have had expectations above that parameter. now we could say 5% 1st year, 5 % 2nd year and do the math for the remaining 3 or 8 years but that makes too many poll options. just trying to keep it reasonable

Definitely disappointed at this point in time (although my own Leaf is meeting my expectations, I am no longer comfortable recommending the Leaf)

aaaah, this is the point of the thread. why are you no longer comfortable? you now know much more than you did before; some bad, some good. either way, you should feel more comfortable in making a recommendation to a potential owner.

before there was a lot of unknown, speculation, etc. there is still some but not nearly as much. the benefits of EVs still abound. granted there are a few more options (although i would not recommend an EV without a QC option which is a major change for me)

i think we want to stay away from making value decisions for other people. just give them the facts, what we now know to be true. each one of you needs to weigh your statements with your knowledge of your local weather.

There are only two choices out of 5 that are within the realm of possibility, since the first 3 we know are not likely to be achievable for any battery. You might get as low as 2-3% in a year, but no loss is completely unrealistic.

oh ya really. ok "I" will qualify for #2 tomorrow but then again, my last 281 GID measurement was on Saturday and a lot can happen in 4 days...

No F-bombs needed or accepted.

we discussed this and it was an F-star!~! not the same. we all know what WTF means so is it as bad as spelling it out or an acceptable way to get the point across??

ooooh, never mind. i will edit

 

[thankyouOB]

Dave, you are proving that some folks ignored the warnings about capacity loss and that capacity losses in PX are proceeding at a rate faster than many expectations.

 

[dgpcolorado]

4 for me. The concept of a rapid drop then leveling out wasn't something I thought about before buying the car. But I really didn't have a clue how the battery pack would hold up and I would have considered -5% by 18 months as acceptable.

At eight months I haven't any idea whether I have any capacity loss. The real test will come this winter when I start pushing the range in cold weather again. I expect that in a few years I will no longer be able to make it up the hill to my home after my 65-75 mile grocery shopping trips. When that happens I will just do some L1 charging down in town as needed. If L2 public charge stations get installed it would be easier, but that seems unlikely given that I have the only EV within 90 miles and this is not ideal short-range EV territory like the big cities are.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Dave, you are proving that some folks ignored the warnings about capacity loss and that capacity losses in PX are proceeding at a rate faster than many expectations.

true true. we should know much more in next 6 weeks but Phoenix is waaaay beyond 20% in 5 years. as far as ignoring loss warnings. i dont think we ignored them. i think we got lulled into a sense of complacency. we had a handful of people like TaylorSF who basically blew the book up on expected range. he basically ignored most of the rules and is doing fine.

now i am a bit different. i had a ZENN so went into this with plenty of "battery paranoia" and was going to make sure i did nothing to get more than my 20% in 5 years but i doubt that my measures accounts for me seeing no degradation. in fact, i am pretty sure of it.

people PM me for advice and i only have one; move

 

[mwalsh]

people PM me for advice and i only have one; move

Do you have enough guest rooms?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

people PM me for advice and i only have one; move

Do you have enough guest rooms?

Michael; you know that WA rain is a myth right? we perpetuated that myth in the 80's when CA migration got out of control (i was one of them!!) to stem the tide a bit.

thankfully no one has bothered to notice that at 37" of rain annually, Seattle ranks behind nearly every major city in the US including Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis, New York, etc...

 

[Stoaty]

aaaah, this is the point of the thread. why are you no longer comfortable? you now know much more than you did before; some bad, some good. either way, you should feel more comfortable in making a recommendation to a potential owner.

Oh, I am very comfortable giving information, but with what I know now, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who might spend considerable time in the hot San Fernando Valley. While I am glad I have my Leaf, I know how to baby it and take it as a challenge, just like keeping up my 5.7 miles/kwh (dash). Most people won't want to do that, and with the uncertainty about exactly how the temperature/capacity thing is going to play out, I won't say, "Yes, you should buy a Leaf." Even though I love my Leaf and am glad I got it when I did, if I were reading the forum now and hadn't bought a Leaf I would almost certainly decide to wait and see what happens with the 2013 model (and wait for further info on battery pack degradation and Nissan's response). If I wouldn't buy one now, how can I recommend that someone else do so?

 

[craigmartell]

I took the "no more than 20% in 5 years" statments that Nissan made to include the real possibility of rapid loss right away with leveling off. So, I am actually a

6) up to 20% in the first 12-18 months

but you can put me down as a 5.