Air conditioning 'compressor' or 'condenser' problem

[Deleted member 37974]

Hi all,

I've been taking my 2014 Nissan Leaf 24kWh Visia to a local 'backstreet' garage (not a Nissan dealership) in Manchester, UK for its annual MOT and very basic service since I got the car in 2018. I love how little maintenance the Leaf needs! However in summer 2023 the air conditioning suddenly stopped working on a particularly hot day (frustratingly only about 2 weeks after a regular air con recharge). When I took it to my local 'backstreet' garage for repair, they said that the compressor or the condenser (sorry I can't remember which word he said!) needed replacing and they weren't prepared to do it on an electric car because "it's right next to the high voltage stuff and we won't touch that". I then called the local Nissan dealership for a quote to do the work (bearing in mind they were just going off the word of the backstreet garage as to what the problem was) and they quoted £950 which is insane. I have absolutely no car maintenance skills so I'm hoping someone in the North West of England can point me in the direction of a good garage who could properly diagnose the air con problem and offer reasonable prices for the work. As we're in the deep freeze of winter, I'm not in a major hurry to get this done (thankfully the heating isn't affected by this problem) but it would be great to sort it in time for spring/summer.

Matthew

 

[cornbinder89]

1st you need to know what the problem is, and what caused the failure. A rock or stone that was kicked up and damaged the condenser ("radiator" in the front that cools the refrigerant). Much more serious like the compressor, which, can, if run out of oil pass metal to the whole system, and may be uneconomical to repair as all the parts of the system have to be replaced to be sure no more metal is in the system to damage the brand new parts.
Since A/C is really a heat pump on the Leaf, it is also used for heat (in most later models, I think the change over was 2013).
An A/C system that has leaked its refrigerant, also carries the refrigerant oil with it. It is VERY important that the amount of oil is checked and put back in once the leak is repaired.
Older cars had compressors with larger oil sumps in the compressor (piston pumps mostly) but for the last several decades the size of the compressor and the amount of oil they can hold has been decreasing.
Today a A/C system should never just need a boost or recharge. It MUST have the source of the leak found and repaired along with the oil checked and replaced. Not only is it the law in North America and I would assume in Europe, but is essential to not having to do it all over again.
In most conventional cars, the compressor is driven with a belt off the engine. Where the shaft passes from the pulley into the compressor there is a shaft seal, to keep the high pressure refrigerant inside while the shaft can still rotate. This this primary leak point for vehicle A/C. It is why cars leak more than home (stationary) A/C or refrigerators.
The Leaf and many Hybrids use an electric compressor that is sealed (like refrigerators and building A/C so eliminate that big leak point that most cars have. A leak on a system that has no shaft seal is a big deal. It need to be properly vetted to find the leak. It could be where the HV leads enter the compressor or it could be elsewhere.
The Leaf uses a "scroll type" compressor and has no metal parts that slide against eachother like piston compressors. This means that there is less friction but also less oil needed. Oil is a necessary evil as it reduces heat transfer. The scroll compressor needs oil for the bearings on the motor shaft and a little extra for the scroll itself to help seal the sections and make it pump better. They generally contain less oil than a piston compressor for the same size system. Any leak will likely take enough oil to stave the compressor of lubrication, if not replaced when the leak is fixed.
If the shop you used doesn't know much about electric and hybrid cars and just treated it like any other A/C system, their over looking the oil, may not have caused them a problem in the past but will on new electrically driven compressors. Oil should be checked on ALL A/C systems and lack of checking results in the majority of A/C compressor failure regardless if engine or electrically driven. I rarely see a compressor failure where the compressor has a full oil charge, and the few I have were "shoddy" rebuilds where factory tolerances where not maintained

 

[RNeil]

Regular servicing of air conditioning on an ICE car is probably a good idea. Their compressors are driven by a belt. The shaft seals can leak. The Leaf air conditioner has the air conditioner motor and compressor together, like on your refrigerator. It does not need the same maintenance as an ICE car. I don't like the idea of opening the system to measure pressures.

This could be a case of maintenance induced failure.

 

[cornbinder89]

Niether system should be opened for checks, Pressure/temp charts and system performance checks can be done without opening the system. You can use (good, not cheap) non contact IR thermometers to see if things look in line to what they should be. Gauges and oil checks should be done if the system is open for repair, not opened to make checks. Oil can not be lost without loss of refrigerant. so no need to check it if the system is ok. The problem comes when those that don't understand, "top up" or recharge a system without finding you and repairing what caused the leak.
He said it failed 2 weeks after recharge, but not why it needed a recharge or what was done to find the leak at that time. My guess is the shop just added R134a and didn't look for why it needed it.

 

[Jbechtold]

Regular servicing of air conditioning on an ICE car is probably a good idea. Their compressors are driven by a belt. The shaft seals can leak. The Leaf air conditioner has the air conditioner motor and compressor together, like on your refrigerator. It does not need the same maintenance as an ICE car. I don't like the idea of opening the system to measure pressures.

This could be a case of maintenance induced failure.

So true. I'm on my 5th Leaf. I NEVER to look any of them in for anything other than recalls or a warranty issue. Never let them open (and contaminate) the brake system! They don't need new fluid unless you let them break that factory seal.
Leafs need nothing but tires, ww wipers & fluid, and an occasional cabin air filter (do it yourself, it's easy). If you keep it long enough, you'll have to replace the 12v battery. If anything goes wrong after 4 years or so... Replace that first. It's likely the problem.
That's it. Don't take it anywhere; it will only lead to trouble.

 

[Deleted member 37974]

Thanks for the replies. My Leaf doesn’t have the newer heat pump system - it’s the older simpler AC unit separate to the heater. Any Leaf owners on here from England who can recommend a place to look at my AC issue?

 

[cornbinder89]

So true. I'm on my 5th Leaf. I NEVER to look any of them in for anything other than recalls or a warranty issue. Never let them open (and contaminate) the brake system! They don't need new fluid unless you let them break that factory seal.e.

That is not true about the brakes. As pads wear more fluid is in the caliper piston (as it moves outward to compensate for the wear) and outside air is drawn into the res as the fluid level drops, It is not "sealed". With the air come moisture. Not a bad Idea and recommended by Nissan (and just about every other mfg) to flush the system to get any moisture that the fluid at specified interval. As brake parts get more expensive and complicated with traction control and ABS, the risks involved in not flushing moisture out go up.
The OP already had opened the A/C system, his refrigerant was lost, but it sounds like no one looked into why it lost the refrigerant.

 

[Dooglas]

That is not true about the brakes. As pads wear more fluid is in the caliper piston (as it moves outward to compensate for the wear) and outside air is drawn into the res as the fluid level drops, It is not "sealed". With the air come moisture. Not a bad Idea and recommended by Nissan (and just about every other mfg) to flush the system to get any moisture that the fluid at specified interval. As brake parts get more expensive and complicated with traction control and ABS, the risks involved in not flushing moisture out go up.

Agree. The usual manufacturers recommendation is to flush and change brake fluid every two years. An alternative is to test the brake fluid for water once a year and flush the system when it tests as contaminated. Most auto parts stores sell the test kit.

 

[Alinuxali]

So true. I'm on my 5th Leaf. I NEVER to look any of them in for anything other than recalls or a warranty issue. Never let them open (and contaminate) the brake system! They don't need new fluid unless you let them break that factory seal.
Leafs need nothing but tires, ww wipers & fluid, and an occasional cabin air filter (do it yourself, it's easy). If you keep it long enough, you'll have to replace the 12v battery. If anything goes wrong after 4 years or so... Replace that first. It's likely the problem.
That's it. Don't take it anywhere; it will only lead to trouble.

Don't take it to any dealer. It will only lead to tremendous trouble. This actually happened with my 2015 Nissan Leaf SL. I took it to a Nissan dealer to open the hood which was stuck. They did something to the A/C lines after opening the hood and now neither the heat not the A/C work. Only when I push the windshield defrost button then the hot air comes out, or if I turn both heat and A/C on at the same time. I get only cold air when I turn the heat or the A/C on. Very strange.