gonefishin
Active member
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2011
- Messages
- 26
I realize this is at least the 3rd thread about dead leafs after vacations while being plugged in. The reason I'm not just adding to those is that they are pretty old, and have gone astray with random topics like air moisture. I would like this thread to tackle more of the diagnosis of what's really going on and to collect other reports. In the two threads I found:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8588&hilit=dead+leaf+vacation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=5332&hilit=dead+leaf+vacation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
when a leaf is left with the traction battery charged, off (presumably), and plugged in, the 12v battery dies but the traction battery remains the same. I also found one thread where it was left at the airport without being plugged in and the main traction battery dropped very low, which seems to be a completely different issue. My case is very similar to the first two cases.
1) On the evening of May 22nd I believe I left the car in the OFF state. I haven't ever left it in the READY state in the 8 months since I've owned it.
2) I plugged it in. I have a fancy power monitoring system, The Energy Detective, which measures exactly how much power the charger is using. I have proof that it was charged for several hours the evening before my trip. This is a KEY bit of evidence as we'll see later. The records show it charged 15.55 kwh from 9PM to 1AM on 5/23. The records also show some minor usage which could be due to the charger itself - 30 watts every 12-1AM until the 28th, then 30-40 watts per hour from midnight on the 28th til 10AM on the 29th (34 hours). It didn't use the normal 30 watts on midnight of the 30th or 31st. I suspect the battery was dead by this point.
3) On the morning of the 31st I returned from the trip and unplugged my car. It didn't respond in any way. THe only sign of life was a very feint slow flashing on the start button. I had to leave so I called roadside assistance and left the car with my wife.
4) Roadside assistance had to jump it from their truck to get it out of park and out of the garage. They were able to get it into Neutral, but not Drive or Reverse. The traction battery showed normal charge. I wasn't there to diagnose why they couldn't get it into D or R, but I suspected they weren't pressing on the brake pedal? In later experiments, however, I found that you have to press on the brake to get it into N, so I don't think that was the problem. My latest theory is that the charger was still plugged in, preventing shifting into anything but N. Roadside assistance pushed the vehicle out of the garage but had to leave the vehicle due to lack of space in my driveway.
5) When I returned home I jumped it with a battery charger with a 50 AMP starter feature. I only now read that there might be some danger to the inverter but fortunately I had no problems. I was able to jump the car and immediately get it into D and R. I put it on the charger overnight, and the next day the battery tested fine (with a 100 AMP load Harbor Freight battery tester), and everything seemed to drive fine.
6) Today I brought it to the dealer to have it checked out. They pulled a code out of the computer which they say means the car was left in ready mode! I found that highly unlikely.
If I had left it in Ready mode there are two possibilities, so I tried them both out. I am skeptical I left it in Ready mode.
Theory 1) I drove it into the garage, put it into park, exited the car, and plugged in the charger while still in ready mode. I tried this out tonight. The result when you plug in a car in Ready mode is that the car shuts most of itself off (engine fans go silent) but stays in ready mode. The death blow of this theory is that the charger will NOT charge. It says "Ready to Charge". Since I have proof that the charger was charging for several hours afterwards this cannot be. Page CH-4 supports this "if the charger is connected to the vehicle while the power switch is in the READY to drive position, the vehicle will automatically switch to the ON position. Because charging will not be started while the power switch is in this position, be sure to place the power switch in the OFF position".
Theory 2) I turned the car off, then plugged in the charger, and then re-entered the car and turned the car on. I tried this out tonight. The result when you turn on a car being charged is that if you simply press the start button with or w/o the brake pedal the car doesn't enter Ready mode (the left-right arrow never appears). Instead, you are left in a state indicated by a plug icon. While this may seem like a technicality, the Leaf techs were very clear about the car being left in "Ready" mode.
So, my conclusion is that the car was NOT left in Ready mode, and the code that the Leaf generated code about low battery is not specific to Ready mode. It's slightly possible but very unlikely that it was left in "plugged in" mode (not sure what the official term is).
I would also like to point out that despite what the techs and my salesman says about the Leaf not charging the 12v while in Ready mode page EV-5 of the manual says EXACTLY that! "The Li-ion battery charges the 12-volt battery as necessary when the power switch is in the READY to drive position". Further, it says "the 12-volt battery charges automatically for 5 minutes every 5 days. The charge timing resets to 5 days without charging the 12-volt battery if -The vehicle is place in the READY to drive position for more than 5 minutes or - The Li-ion battery is charged for more than 5 minutes". This means that in READY the 12v *is* charged. While OFF the 12v is charged every 5 days. The READY mode will delay the OFF mode charging for 5 days, but it should still charge the 12v while in the READY mode.
I also found this paragraph CH-9 "If a charge connector is connected while charging is not being performed, when the power switch is placed in the ON position and the selector lever is operated, it is only possible to switch from P to N". This is probably the situation my wife found after jumping - they jumped it in the garage and may not have disconnected the charge cable. When I found the car in the driveway disconnected, jumping immediately allowed me access to D and R.
Bottom line, I think there's a bug in the Leaf software. I think I and the others left the car in the OFF mode and plugged in charging. There must be a bug that while left plugged in, the 5 day timer isn't working and the 12v is draining. My energy meter also shows an unusual 30-40 watt/hr drain for 1.5 days starting at 5 days after leaving it - I wonder if this is a symptom of the problem. I can't afford to leave my leaf for 5 days to see what happens, and understandably dealers don't want to tie up a car & charger for 5 days. My advice is to not leave the car plugged in for extended periods of time.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8588&hilit=dead+leaf+vacation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=5332&hilit=dead+leaf+vacation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
when a leaf is left with the traction battery charged, off (presumably), and plugged in, the 12v battery dies but the traction battery remains the same. I also found one thread where it was left at the airport without being plugged in and the main traction battery dropped very low, which seems to be a completely different issue. My case is very similar to the first two cases.
1) On the evening of May 22nd I believe I left the car in the OFF state. I haven't ever left it in the READY state in the 8 months since I've owned it.
2) I plugged it in. I have a fancy power monitoring system, The Energy Detective, which measures exactly how much power the charger is using. I have proof that it was charged for several hours the evening before my trip. This is a KEY bit of evidence as we'll see later. The records show it charged 15.55 kwh from 9PM to 1AM on 5/23. The records also show some minor usage which could be due to the charger itself - 30 watts every 12-1AM until the 28th, then 30-40 watts per hour from midnight on the 28th til 10AM on the 29th (34 hours). It didn't use the normal 30 watts on midnight of the 30th or 31st. I suspect the battery was dead by this point.
3) On the morning of the 31st I returned from the trip and unplugged my car. It didn't respond in any way. THe only sign of life was a very feint slow flashing on the start button. I had to leave so I called roadside assistance and left the car with my wife.
4) Roadside assistance had to jump it from their truck to get it out of park and out of the garage. They were able to get it into Neutral, but not Drive or Reverse. The traction battery showed normal charge. I wasn't there to diagnose why they couldn't get it into D or R, but I suspected they weren't pressing on the brake pedal? In later experiments, however, I found that you have to press on the brake to get it into N, so I don't think that was the problem. My latest theory is that the charger was still plugged in, preventing shifting into anything but N. Roadside assistance pushed the vehicle out of the garage but had to leave the vehicle due to lack of space in my driveway.
5) When I returned home I jumped it with a battery charger with a 50 AMP starter feature. I only now read that there might be some danger to the inverter but fortunately I had no problems. I was able to jump the car and immediately get it into D and R. I put it on the charger overnight, and the next day the battery tested fine (with a 100 AMP load Harbor Freight battery tester), and everything seemed to drive fine.
6) Today I brought it to the dealer to have it checked out. They pulled a code out of the computer which they say means the car was left in ready mode! I found that highly unlikely.
If I had left it in Ready mode there are two possibilities, so I tried them both out. I am skeptical I left it in Ready mode.
Theory 1) I drove it into the garage, put it into park, exited the car, and plugged in the charger while still in ready mode. I tried this out tonight. The result when you plug in a car in Ready mode is that the car shuts most of itself off (engine fans go silent) but stays in ready mode. The death blow of this theory is that the charger will NOT charge. It says "Ready to Charge". Since I have proof that the charger was charging for several hours afterwards this cannot be. Page CH-4 supports this "if the charger is connected to the vehicle while the power switch is in the READY to drive position, the vehicle will automatically switch to the ON position. Because charging will not be started while the power switch is in this position, be sure to place the power switch in the OFF position".
Theory 2) I turned the car off, then plugged in the charger, and then re-entered the car and turned the car on. I tried this out tonight. The result when you turn on a car being charged is that if you simply press the start button with or w/o the brake pedal the car doesn't enter Ready mode (the left-right arrow never appears). Instead, you are left in a state indicated by a plug icon. While this may seem like a technicality, the Leaf techs were very clear about the car being left in "Ready" mode.
So, my conclusion is that the car was NOT left in Ready mode, and the code that the Leaf generated code about low battery is not specific to Ready mode. It's slightly possible but very unlikely that it was left in "plugged in" mode (not sure what the official term is).
I would also like to point out that despite what the techs and my salesman says about the Leaf not charging the 12v while in Ready mode page EV-5 of the manual says EXACTLY that! "The Li-ion battery charges the 12-volt battery as necessary when the power switch is in the READY to drive position". Further, it says "the 12-volt battery charges automatically for 5 minutes every 5 days. The charge timing resets to 5 days without charging the 12-volt battery if -The vehicle is place in the READY to drive position for more than 5 minutes or - The Li-ion battery is charged for more than 5 minutes". This means that in READY the 12v *is* charged. While OFF the 12v is charged every 5 days. The READY mode will delay the OFF mode charging for 5 days, but it should still charge the 12v while in the READY mode.
I also found this paragraph CH-9 "If a charge connector is connected while charging is not being performed, when the power switch is placed in the ON position and the selector lever is operated, it is only possible to switch from P to N". This is probably the situation my wife found after jumping - they jumped it in the garage and may not have disconnected the charge cable. When I found the car in the driveway disconnected, jumping immediately allowed me access to D and R.
Bottom line, I think there's a bug in the Leaf software. I think I and the others left the car in the OFF mode and plugged in charging. There must be a bug that while left plugged in, the 5 day timer isn't working and the 12v is draining. My energy meter also shows an unusual 30-40 watt/hr drain for 1.5 days starting at 5 days after leaving it - I wonder if this is a symptom of the problem. I can't afford to leave my leaf for 5 days to see what happens, and understandably dealers don't want to tie up a car & charger for 5 days. My advice is to not leave the car plugged in for extended periods of time.