Anyone into electric cycling? Electric Bicycles

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I was taking my main e-bike for a test ride with an almost-new battery from Ebay the other night, and on my way home I got hit by a car. It was a lot less bad than the time in high school when an older student tried to kill me via vehicular assault, though: the car hit my left rear pannier, which is filled with stuff that includes a rolled-up jacket. I didn't even fall off the bike. The girl stopped and apologized, offering me whatever info I wanted. I took a picture of the car with license plate and got her phone number. She actually came closer to killing me via heart attack...
Amazingly, even the bike seems ok.
 
I just retrofitted a Specialized Hardrock 29" tires with the Bafang BBS02 750w midmount..... now the trick is to get the assists right for me..... lots of info on the web but I JUST got the cable so tonite I will start tuning the assists so that the lower ones do almost nothing and ramp up slowly...... If I am riding with others who are not motorized I need to not be speeding out ahead of them.....
 
Leftie, glad you are OK. I've never been hit by a car but I've t-boned two, once on a motorcycle and once on a bicycle. Both times I just flew over the hood and bounced without any serious injury (to me, both bikes were a total loss). Of course, neither one was my fault and I was watching both vehicles ahead of time, I just didn't expect either one to pull illegal and stupid moves and couldn't stop in time once they did.

Be careful out there!
 
It was a reminder that the only safe attitude is to assume that all other drivers are trying to kill me. I made the mistake of relying on the bright turn signal built into my large taillight, as it was dusk. Of course, if she managed to not see me in the middle of the road, preparing to turn left with a flashing signal light, I would probably have just gotten a broken (or amputated) arm if I had hand-signaled. She must have either been talking to - and looking at - her front seat passenger, or was on the phone.

I'm looking to make my current main bike my backup, and get something new. I've only ridden hubmotor bikes, so I'd be interested in reports on the Bafang. I'm considering mostly 500/750 watt hubmotor bikes, but I don't like loud uneven noises - a moderate, even drone is ok. If a mid-drive setup were smooth and quiet enough, I'd consider it. I'm looking at two Ride1up bikes, both hubmotors, but they are also introducing a mid-drive bike. Their bikes aren't a perfect match for me, but the cheaper one uses the same battery as my Metro, so I'd have two spares, and the bigger one offers 750 watts and hydraulic brakes for $1600.
 
I don't know your budget but I've been very impressed with Sur-Ron. More of a little motorcycle than a bicycle but that can be both good and bad I guess.
 
One major diff between the Bafang motors, whether hub or mid mount, and the Bosch and Yamaha mid mounts is that they have a torque sensor and Bafang does not (yet). This means that as the rider works harder the bike works harder making it seem very intuitive. The bafang has 9 different Pedal Assist Levels but they are programmed as percentage of the total available power and the rider pedalling acts as a switch, assist is either on or off no matter how hard you pedal. I end up using Pedal Assist levels that are close to each other, after all there are 9 of them, to add bits of power as I climb hills- my wife just rides along and the bike does the thinking. Keep this in mind...
 
The Sur Ron (aka Light Bee) is definitely more dirt bike than bicycle. You have to order a pedal kit separately, and it's very Rube Goldberg.

The assist levels work that way on most cheaper bikes, and I'm used to adding 'boost' instead of anything interactive. Mostly with mid-drives I'm worried about it feeling weird to have the crank moving of its own volition, instead of having an isolated hubmotor turning the rear wheel of its own volition. Does the Bafang have cruise control, to smooth out the pedaling?
 
The Bafang mid mount has a throttle, which is not on-off but is proportional, and the assist levels are completely programmable although it is a very clunky software interface and I am still working on that...... I seldom use the throttle even though I transitioned to this bike from a 250W front hub that was a push-button on-off. I think you will like the pedals, and I also think that there will be programmed assist levels that meet everyone's needs although that is gonna take some time...... good luck and bike safe! PS worth pointing out that the Yamaha on my wife's ebike is a lot more efficient than the Bafang- her battery is smaller and never drops as fast as the Bafang when we ride. 'course she weighs less but the enrgy use is not proportional to weight....
 
The Bafang mid mount has a throttle, which is not on-off but is proportional, and the assist levels are completely programmable although it is a very clunky software interface and I am still working on that...... I seldom use the throttle even though I transitioned to this bike from a 250W front hub that was a push-button on-off. I think you will like the pedals, and I also think that there will be programmed assist levels that meet everyone's needs although that is gonna take some time...... good luck and bike safe! PS worth pointing out that the Yamaha on my wife's ebike is a lot more efficient than the Bafang- her battery is smaller and never drops as fast as the Bafang when we ride. 'course she weighs less but the enrgy use is not proportional to weight....
 
I could probably find all this out with some research but since you seem to know quite a bit about it, could you give a thumbnail review of the Bosch, Yamaha and Bafang? I'm sold on mid-drive but I had no idea about the torque sensor on the Bosch/Yamaha and none on the Bafang. Are all of these available as retro-fit kits? The last time I looked it seemed like the only way to get a Bosch unit was to buy a bike that was made with it. I didn't know Yamaha even made one.
 
Since I havebeen down this rabbit hole for the last few weeks, as my wife says "saving money by wasting time", here is what I think to be true:

I have not seen either the Bosch or the Yamaha available as a reftrofit- you buy the bike. Tey seem very much similar to each other- most bikes seem to use the Bosch but Giant uses the Yamaha. I am not aware of any differences- speculation is that Bosch did the development work and that somebody else came along and scooped it up but that may be unfair.

The Bafang is Chinese and has been around for quite a while as a simple electric hub motor, they are now getting a lot more sophisticated and the mid-mount is their fanciest and most expensive option. They actually make a torque sensor but it is not available in the US yet..... won't be long I would guess.

For me it came down to cost: a good used mountain bike cost me $400 (with the things it seemed to make sense to have on an ebike and which none of my bikes had: front suspension, disc brakes, 29" tires for the dirt roads we live on), I bought the Bafang from the local shop and felt OK about asking them to take the original crank out and take the pedals off (I do not own those tools) as part of the deal, cost me a few bucks but they are super familiar with the units and have been great to work with.

As mentioned before, the Bafang is for geeks if you want to be one, you can get the software to program the pedal assists to your own liking..... BUT, it is never gonna be as intuitive as the torque sensor motors. It is however, a very cool thing and opens up worlds of cruising to those of us over a certain age as they say!
 
Thanks, great writeup. I saw Lennard Zinn had a custom-made bike with the Bosch unit but he probably has contacts in the industry that helped with that. With my Leaf I mostly ride my bike for fun and exercise now. Every time I think of getting a full-on e-bike (like a Sur Ron) it doesn't make sense since there isn't a big advantage over the Leaf. Pedal assist would be a great help though as you mentioned. I'd like to get one for my wife first. She's a good hiker, x-country skier, even mtn biker, but - oh boy - put her on a road bike and we just don't match up anymore.
 
You really should stop thinking of the Sur Ron as an ebike, though. It's a small electric dirt bike with better performance than most. I wouldn't expect the optional pedal drive to withstand more than occasional, casual pedaling. It's mostly there for changing the bike to a legal "bicycle." If you want an expensive E-bike that really is a bicycle, but can run with at least the small dirt bikes, look at the Frey bikes. I'm considering the Frey CC...
 
Pedal assist would be a great help though as you mentioned. I'd like to get one for my wife first. She's a good hiker, x-country skier, even mtn biker, but - oh boy - put her on a road bike and we just don't match up anymore.

Yup, start there, we have a Giant Liv Rove which is a good basic model and actually has a lot of oomph and and a great battery, works well but no bells or whistles. My wife weighs about 120 FWIW so the Liv's 50nm might not be enough for others..... longest ride so far is 31 miles and it used about a third of the battery.


I wish all manufacturers would use the newton-meter specification, it seems like a good parameter to compare....
 
LeftieBiker said:
It was a reminder that the only safe attitude is to assume that all other drivers are trying to kill me. I made the mistake of relying on the bright turn signal built into my large taillight, as it was dusk. Of course, if she managed to not see me in the middle of the road, preparing to turn left with a flashing signal light, I would probably have just gotten a broken (or amputated) arm if I had hand-signaled. She must have either been talking to - and looking at - her front seat passenger, or was on the phone.


Amen to that. Glad you're okay. I've been riding in heavy street traffic for 52 years now, and have managed to avoid being hit bar two times. Once I was overtaken by a car which hooked the end of my left handlebar, which turned the front wheel about 45 degrees to the right. As I was going down a hill at speed at the time, the front of the bike stopped, but not the rear or I, and we continued over the handlebars. Fortunately, for the very first time ever I was wearing a helmet, as the bike shop I was test-riding a bike I was considering buying had just that day instituted a new policy of requiring helmets (they supplied) on all test rides. (Grumble, grumble, "I've been riding for x years, I don't need no stinkin' helmet"). I did a somersault over the bars and slammed the back of my head into the pavement, or rather, the back of the helmet instead, which took the impact. Minor scrapes and bruises and some nerve damage in one hand otherwise; that cleared up in about a month. Wound up buying the bike (not that specific one, it was damaged), but the same model. Plus a helmet, which I've worn religiously ever since except when making long climbs, as doing so then would cause me to overheat.

Second time I got right-hooked, by a guy who was tired of waiting in line for the signal to change so he could make a right turn, and decided to cut through a McDonald's parking lot instead as I was coming up on the right between the line of cars and the curb. No signal, just went, but I saw his front wheel start to crank right and yelled, so he only moved a few feet forward before stopping. I lucked out and only got a few scrapes on my arm; if I'd been further forward he would have pinned me to the edge of the curb cut, knocked the bike over and maybe driven over me.

I assume that every driver is looking at their cell phone/blind/drunk or drugged/having a heated argument with their spouse until proven otherwise, and act accordingly. Even so, thanks to smart phones (and an entire generation that's grown up thinking looking at them is far more important than watching the road) I now avoid death or serious injury by anticipating the worst about once every ten days - when I started riding (long pre-cell phone) it was maybe every month or so.
 
The Magnum is getting noisy again already, and seems slightly slower with the new hubmotor as well. So I've been shopping hard, and last night I tried to buy a Biktrix Swift Step-Thru. Quiet but strong direct drive motor, 17.5AH battery, and supposedly a torque sensor as well as cadence. But for some reason, PayPal Credit - for which I've been pre-approved for years - refused my application. Then my debit card was declined. You have to understand that my credit rating has been near 800 for years, so...something is very amiss...
 
What is the motor in that Biktrix Leftie? is that a Bafang Ultra, or other? It will be great when the Chinese motors can have a torque sensor, that is a great leap forward for ebikes IMHO
 
The bike uses a MXUS 1kw hub motor, but it turns out that it's geared, NOT Direct Drive as was listed at the site. So the card being declined turned out to be a blessing for me. I'd love a 1kw geared motor - until it started getting loud after a few hundred, or maybe a thousand, miles. I think I'm going to just buy a DD kit and convert the Metro this coming Winter.

Sometimes when I order in the wee small hours, it triggers a "suspected fraud alert." I have told our banks several times NOT to do that based on time of day only, but every now and then it happens. I'm relieved, although I just went through almost an hour of work, talking to the bank and cancelling the order for certain.
 
I forgot to write this earlier: I don't see what the big deal is with torque sensors - or more accurately, why the mis-named cadence sensors are so maligned. That's likely because, until the Metro, I always rode cheap E-bikes with only cadence sensors. I'm used to dealing with the PAS lag, and it doesn't bother me because I use the throttle to compensate. Now if I had a bike with PAS only, that I can see would be a PITA.
 
Had a chance recently to ride my uncles Specialized something-something Turbo and that surge when you pedal hard is quite nice- the pedal assist just ain't the same. Don't get me wrong, I am keeping the Bafang on my mountain bike but the $5K option is a kick in the pants.....
 
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