Battery Pack Backup

[co2x3]

Is their a battery pack on the market today that one could use for extending leafs driving charge? my drive plans reach the 100 mile range trips on a regular basis. driving speed average 55 mph. If so where could you hook it in to ?
:?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Is their a battery pack on the market today that one could use for extending leafs driving charge? my drive plans reach the 100 mile range trips on a regular basis. driving speed average 55 mph. If so where could you hook it in to ?
:?

You won't reach 100 miles at 55mph. Nobody yet has an auxiliary battery pack, but several are actively working on it.

 

[Scowbay]

Is there a real-world average speed that will "reliably" give you a 100 mile range?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Click on the link "HowFarCanIdrive" in my signature line.

In 13,000 miles with the LEAF, I drove exactly 100 miles once. That was from 100% to Turtle. Maximum speed was 45mph, with very few traffic stops, and no traffic between 11:40pm and 2:40am. My range would have been increased by 10% had the temperature been 70F, instead of 50F.

 

[TomT]

Assuming your charge to 100 percent, somewhere just below 45... However, if you spend much time above 45, you'd have to spend much more time below 45 to reach the same average energy usage due to the power being required to go a given speed increasing by the cube of the speed.

Is there a real-world average speed that will "reliably" give you a 100 mile range?

 

[sproqitman]

Is there a real-world average speed that will "reliably" give you a 100 mile range?

Use the chart in this thread:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=4295" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[mark13]

Wow Tony you only reached a 100 miles once..Im glad I live in a warm city and iam a 99% city road driver..

Im 3 weeks away from hitting 10k miles with a avg of 5.9 KW/M and a avg of 120-130 per charge..

 

[cwerdna]

Is there a real-world average speed that will "reliably" give you a 100 mile range?

Edmunds achieved 132 miles at 35 mph: http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtests/2011/05/2011-nissan-leaf-driving-it-to-the-bitter-end.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

 

[TonyWilliams]

a avg of 120-130 per charge..

You physically DRIVE 120-130 miles per day without a charge? Or can I presume that this number is the GuessOmeter "prediction"?

I've done plenty of 130 mile days, but not without some charging in the middle of the day.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Is there a real-world average speed that will "reliably" give you a 100 mile range?

Edmunds achieved 132 miles at 35 mph: http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtests/2011/05/2011-nissan-leaf-driving-it-to-the-bitter-end.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Yes they did. On a track at EXACTLY 35mph. Unless you're on a track, I'm going to suggest that this won't be likely for a LEAF driver in real traffic.

 

[Smidge204]

Yes they did. On a track at EXACTLY 35mph. Unless you're on a track, I'm going to suggest that this won't be likely for a LEAF driver in real traffic.

Nick Chambers got 116 miles. It's absolutely possible to get 100+ miles in real-world conditions, but those conditions need to be favorable.

The OP didn't mention if those 100+ mile trips are one-way or round trip. One-way trips would be problematic, but round trip should be easily doable if there is even a normal outlet available at the destination and he plans to be there are least four or five hours.
=Smidge=

 

[TonyWilliams]

The OP didn't mention if those 100+ mile trips are one-way or round trip. One-way trips would be problematic, but round trip should be easily doable if there is even a normal outlet available at the destination and he plans to be there are least four or five hours.
=Smidge=

So, your contention is that you can drive 100+ miles by recharging for at "least four or five hours".

I agree.

And, a one way trip (which presumably means without charging) "would be problematic".

I agree.

Actually, I'm going to announce a 13,400 mile range that I've driven. I just recharged every night at my house. :mrgreen:

 

[TonyWilliams]

Yes they did. On a track at EXACTLY 35mph. Unless you're on a track, I'm going to suggest that this won't be likely for a LEAF driver in real traffic.

Nick Chambers got 116 miles. It's absolutely possible to get 100+ miles in real-world conditions, but those conditions need to be favorable.

I just quickly read through this guy's article, and I find several several statements that I absolutely do NOT agree with. First, let me state that I have driven my car to it's ULTIMATE range many, many times. That means that I fueled up the car, and then completely depleted its ability to drive further, without refueling.

So, since you quoted this guy, I'll offer my counterpoints:

"Alternatively, if you drove a steady 45 miles an hour over a completely flat route on a 60 degree day with no climate control, you might see as many as 135 miles of range."

He hedges his bets by saying "you might see" 135 miles, but he obviously did NOT do it, nor could he with a present day Nissan LEAF at 45mph. This is complete BS. The Edmonds run was at 35mph to cover 132 miles ON A TEST TRACK !!! No stop lights, no up and down, no traffic. Not real world.

"I averaged about 5.1 miles driven per kWh (see first dash photo above). If you do the back calculations, that means the LEAF let me use about 22.76 kW of its total 24 kWh battery..."

Absolutely, flat out, I do not believe this is possible with the present firmware car that we are driving. He may have had a preproduction car with different firmware, but there is NO WAY that 5.1m/kWh equals 116 miles of range at 70F currently. I do not believe that 22.76kW(h) would be available at 70F with our production cars. Not even close.

Certainly, there is a way to write an article that does not include any viable testing standards, but is just feel-good article writing, to suggest all kinds of "real world" ranges. I suspect that I could drive 150 miles, by starting at 6600 feet MSL Big Bear, and driving to the sea level coast on a hot day with no climate control. I could drive that same trip at 12mph, and maybe hit 200 miles!!! So what?

I did physically drive 112 miles on the same day that I drove 100 miles (for a total of 225 miles for the day). On that 112 mile run, I lost 600 feet of elevation, which is a significant increase in range. I don't include it in my "longest" run, because I charged on L2 for about 13 minutes during the trip.

Neither of these attempts fall into the "easy" to accomplish area. Easy means handing the keys to my grandmother or 22 year old son and asking them to drive my car 100 miles.

Neither will arrive without coaching and training. Guys and gals with previous hypermiling or EV experience most likely will. And lastly, none of these ranges include ANY reserve, which in itself, is NOT "real world".

 

[thankyouOB]

what is anticipated maximum range for someone getting 4.3 - 4.7 mKh consistently on a combo of freeway and city streets where free way never exceeds 63 mph?
about 96? and that includes all the juice, not just the redbars?

 

[TonyWilliams]

what is anticipated maximum range for someone getting 4.3 - 4.7 mKh consistently on a combo of freeway and city streets where free way never exceeds 63 mph?
about 96? and that includes all the juice, not just the redbars?

There are no red fuel bars. The red bars are battery capacity bars. All 12 fuel bars are white.

Let's say that you get 4.5m/Kh. It doesn't matter how you got there; freeway or city, or mountain dirt road. For a 100% charge, multiply by 21 and you get 94.5 miles of range.

Two things can change that 21 multiple. Of course, battery degradation over time, which nobody should have much of yet, and temperature on the battery. My rule of thumb is a 1% reduction in battery capacity per 2F below 70F, so that a 50F battery has 10% less capacity.

 

[thankyouOB]

what is anticipated maximum range for someone getting 4.3 - 4.7 mKh consistently on a combo of freeway and city streets where free way never exceeds 63 mph?
about 96? and that includes all the juice, not just the redbars?

There are no red fuel bars. The red bars are battery capacity bars. All 12 fuel bars are white.

Let's say that you get 4.5m/Kh. It doesn't matter how you got there; freeway or city, or mountain dirt road. For a 100% charge, multiply by 21 and you get 94.5 miles of range.

Two things can change that 21 multiple. Of course, battery degradation over time, which nobody should have much of yet, and temperature on the battery. My rule of thumb is a 1% reduction in battery capacity per 2F below 70F, so that a 50F battery has 10% less capacity.

Tony,
thanks, for this.
a question, though;
I did not say red fuel bars; just red bars.
i am referring to the red bars at the bottom of the battery capacity meter--on the right of the dash display. What are you talking about when you say the "fuel bars" are all white?

 

[TonyWilliams]

I did not say red fuel bars; just red bars.
i am referring to the red bars at the bottom of the battery capacity meter--on the right of the dash display. What are you talking about when you say the "fuel bars" are all white?

Those red bars will never go away. They will always be illuminated, since they indicate the CAPACITY of the battery.

The "fuel bars", as we call them (the 12 white ones that are adjacent to the capacity bars) only indicate that the battery is at 100% of available capacity when all 12 are illuminated.

If your battery only had 5% capacity, presumably, at least one of those two red bars would not be illuminated. But, if you charged up the battery to 100% of that 5% capacity, all 12 white fuel bars would be illuminated.

I can only imagine how fast they would deplete on a drive. Maybe one per half mile?

Is that more clear?

 

[thankyouOB]

Tony--I take your point on the red bars as capacity items. I just looked at the dash, again.

I figure about 7 miles per bar at 4.5 mkh which = 7 x 12 = 84 PLUS about 1.5 bars for the hidden capacity = 94.5

 

[garygid]

I believe that Tony knows his LEAF's capabilities, in a wide variety of conditions, better than any other person knows their LEAF.

I THANK Tony for sharing all of his aviation-derived fuel-consumption details with us.

If you have not looked at, printed out, and understood how to use his tables, ...
you are missing some great insights.

But, his LEAF has even fooled him ... a few times.

THANKS TONY!!!

 

[gbarry42]

Visual aid for the discussion:

The thin line of bars to the right is actually a separate gauge. It's not obvious and I wouldn't have known, except the dealer mentioned it during delivery. Naturally, I was in doubt, and looked it up in the owner's manual.

Also note that the "white bars" are actually blue and white.