Braking?

[lion]

Thanks for the update. Just wanted to let you know that while people might not be responding, they are watching this thread

 

[HungryTurkey]

Figure the more quirks that get documented, the better the Leaf and EVs in general will become. This forum is a great place for information. I'll help with my own experiences inasmuch as I can.

 

[hpver]

We got our car back yesterday from the dealer. It took almost 2 weeks because they had to order a new brake booster control unit. We were told the problem was an internal leak inside the unit; that's why we were losing brake fluid, and why it couldn't be repaired. All good so far but we've only had it back for one day. Ours was a 2013 model made at the Smyrna plant and we'd only had it four four months when the brake problem began. That and the other problems documented on this thread make me suspect that there may be some issues with the Smyrna-built Leafs, at least early on.

 

[HungryTurkey]

Anytime a new plant comes up, there will be issues. They have Japanese workers and management there training, doing brain-dumps and overseeing the production and quality issues. They will get it where it needs to be. That said, I am kinda' glad I'm leasing this early in the plant's life. Hopefully, by the time the 2015s roll around, range will double+, the minor and not so minor fit and finish issues will be a much rarer occurrence and the cost will continue to come down thanks to the battery plant they built nearby. But with them actually replacing the control unit, I'm sure they've resolved your issue. Tomorrow is day 7 for me and so far the new 12V battery is keeping everything up. I guess tomorrow or Tuesday will be the big tell.

 

[hpver]

Anytime a new plant comes up, there will be issues. They have Japanese workers and management there training, doing brain-dumps and overseeing the production and quality issues. They will get it where it needs to be. That said, I am kinda' glad I'm leasing this early in the plant's life. Hopefully, by the time the 2015s roll around, range will double+, the minor and not so minor fit and finish issues will be a much rarer occurrence and the cost will continue to come down thanks to the battery plant they built nearby. But with them actually replacing the control unit, I'm sure they've resolved your issue. Tomorrow is day 7 for me and so far the new 12V battery is keeping everything up. I guess tomorrow or Tuesday will be the big tell.

Agree on all counts. We also leased and are glad we did, for the same reasons. I anticipate in 3 years when our lease is up someone will have a really good sub-40k EV out with at least 150 miles of range, probably more. It's still relatively early in the life of modern EV technology as a whole, so I expect a lot of improvements in the coming years.

 

[HungryTurkey]

I wish more people who were multi-car homes would give it a try. There's so much range anxiety that is, for 80%+ of the population, really not warranted. I love in Greenville, SC... where you have to drive *everywhere*. On a busy day, I'll use 80% of a charge, and I have the wife's ICE car for when we do want to go to the beach or something. But at a lease payment under $300 with no gas bill, The Leaf is such a compelling second vehicle, around-town car that is so damned fun to drive. People always ask so many questions about it. The nation as a whole is still kinda' ignorant of EVs. The number of people amazed that I drive a car without an ICE is pretty high. It blows their mind, and then they start asking the requisite questions about charging, range, etc. I think as long as Nissan keeps Leaf advocates happy and can bring down the cost, it could easily become a 200k/year car in North America. I look forward to the days when ICE cars on a lot are the exception and The Accords, Camrys and Altimas are 100% electic. As a nation, we've gotta' get this CO2 issue under control. at 400ppm, it's higher than it's ever been in recorded history. That ain't good. Green energy is so doable... just gotta' get scale up.

 

[HungryTurkey]

Well, yesterday was day 7. Leaving work, back into 12V error, turtle mode again. Limped it into the dealership where things got a little more heated. As this is the fourth time, I've escalated to general manager and corporate. We'll see what comes of it now.

 

[jelloslug]

Well, yesterday was day 7. Leaving work, back into 12V error, turtle mode again. Limped it into the dealership where things got a little more heated. As this is the fourth time, I've escalated to general manager and corporate. We'll see what comes of it now.

I bumped into the Nissan Dealers Operations Manager for the southeast region at a Redbox while mine was in for a PDM replacement. He gave me his card and said that if I ever needed anything to let him know. I can send you his info if you need it. Which dealer did you take your car to? I have avoided Crown simply because of how little they seemed to know. I had my PDM replaced a Greer Nissan.

 

[HungryTurkey]

That number would be handy actually. I called at close today for a status update and the answer was "Nope.. Haven't found anything yet... we charged it and everything says it's ok, but we know that's not gonna work" (duh). And then an hour later, I get a voicemail and the dealership (Crown) is wanting me to let the single technician they have left who can work on Leafs "take the car home and see if it happens to him". I want to scream... What part of "every 6 or 7 days" do they not get... If I let 'em take it home tonight, of course it's gonna' work fine. It might very well be time to have a different Dealer try. I'm frustrated with these guys and no way am I letting them take the car I'm paying for home for the night. Not a cold chance in hell. If he needs to drive it, he has 8+ hours in the day to drive and diagnose it.
But yeah, a higher contact would be welcome. I mean I have the phone number for carlos Ghosn's receptionist, but I don't think I want to take it to that level yet. LOL. Now someone regional or with the Smyrna plant, sure. This cannot be *that* difficult to troubleshoot. The 12V battery is not charging.... whatever the EV equivalent of an alternator is, is seemingly not working. Unless I'm missing something here..

 

[jelloslug]

That number would be handy actually. I called at close today for a status update and the answer was "Nope.. Haven't found anything yet... we charged it and everything says it's ok, but we know that's not gonna work" (duh). And then an hour later, I get a voicemail and the dealership (Crown) is wanting me to let the single technician they have left who can work on Leafs "take the car home and see if it happens to him". I want to scream... What part of "every 6 or 7 days" do they not get... If I let 'em take it home tonight, of course it's gonna' work fine. It might very well be time to have a different Dealer try. I'm frustrated with these guys and no way am I letting them take the car I'm paying for home for the night. Not a cold chance in hell. If he needs to drive it, he has 8+ hours in the day to drive and diagnose it.
But yeah, a higher contact would be welcome. I mean I have the phone number for carlos Ghosn's receptionist, but I don't think I want to take it to that level yet. LOL. Now someone regional or with the Smyrna plant, sure. This cannot be *that* difficult to troubleshoot. The 12V battery is not charging.... whatever the EV equivalent of an alternator is, is seemingly not working. Unless I'm missing something here..

Have you called the Nissan EV help line yet? 877-664-2738

 

[HungryTurkey]

Yep, called that line and they are the ones who arranged the tow on trip 3. What I'd give to have my Grey Leaf back

Just sent my story to corporate (closed for the day). We'll see if I get a reply. at less than a thousand miles driven, I'm just disappointed. Had my Honda for almost 12 years with no problem at all the entire duration (short of paint that oxidized early ).

 

[davewill]

Yep, called that line and they are the ones who arranged the tow on trip 3. ...

Well, call them again and complain about the service you've (not) received. They can create an official ticket that may help you get the attention your situation deserves. Also, start the lemon law process as soon as you qualify to do so. Even if you don't end up following through, it will force Nissan to respond...and it may end up protecting your wallet.

 

[HungryTurkey]

That's one thing I'm not really certain of. How do you start the lemon law process? As this failure is both dangerous and causes the vehicle to not function and is in the shop the 4th time, It qualifies under SC lemon laws from what I understand. I'm just not sure where to start the process. I guess they keep it obfuscated for a reason. I appreciate all the help and advice I've received from this forum.

 

[HungryTurkey]

They recreated the problem in the shop on a hastier time-frame than would normally occur and talked to the "Nissan Engineers", giving them readouts of everything over-the-phone and have a new diagnosis.

Now they say it's a bad PDM. Sounds plausible. Problem is, there are ZERO showing in warehouse inventory, so unless someone takes one off of the assembly line and sends it down, I have no ETA. I'm seeing a lot of posts about bad PDMs... Is that just a catch-all nuclear bomb approach? I would be lying if I said I knew what the PDM did. I can guess it's responsible for distributing power LOL, but aside from that, is it a small part, big part?

/sigh... just want a reliable Leaf back. I need to go read the non-problem/troubleshooting forum... see stories of happy Leaf Drivers . It's the best and worst car I've ever owner. If they could just fix these weird issues a lot of people are having and give it ICE-grade reliability, I'd rate the vehicle a 5/5. If this was 2011, I'd see fit to give them a little slack, three model years later, they really oughtta' be getting to the root on some of these problems. Just my two cents. Anyway, hopefully some of my messages left with corporate will help get the part delivered faster. Dealership said it's classified as "Vehicle-Off-Road", which is like DEFCON4. There was one more classification that was DEFCON5. Dunno how you get the classified in that category.

 

[davewill]

That's one thing I'm not really certain of. How do you start the lemon law process? As this failure is both dangerous and causes the vehicle to not function and is in the shop the 4th time, It qualifies under SC lemon laws from what I understand. I'm just not sure where to start the process. I guess they keep it obfuscated for a reason. I appreciate all the help and advice I've received from this forum.

Unfotunately for you, it looks like the manufacturer has to initiate it. You can only file suit in court after the fact if they don't treat you fairly. Seems like weak gruel compared to the other states that we've seen details on here where a third party handles the complaint directly.

From http://www.consumer.sc.gov/faqs/Pages/lemonlaw.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Q. What happens if the manufacturer is unable to repair the defect?
A. If the defect cannot be repaired, the manufacturer has the option of whether to replace the vehicle or rescind the agreement and refund the money. If the manufacturer elects to rescind the agreement and refund the money, the refund must be for the full purchase price of the vehicle, less a reasonable allowance for the consumer's use. The full purchase price includes: 1) applicable finance charges and 2) all governmental fees, such as sales tax, license fees and registration fees.

Q. Describe the steps I must take in getting a refund or replacement for my vehicle.
A. Before you request a refund or replacement you must first participate in any arbitration procedure the manufacturer may have established (the decisions are binding on the manufacturer). This type mediation is know as an "informal dispute settlement procedure." The "informal dispute settlement procedure" must:
1. set up requirements for consumer notification;
2. be free from the manufacturer's influence;
3. be free of charge to the consumer;
4. generally settle the dispute within 40 days

Q. What can I do if I am not satisfied with the mediation decision?
A. If after arbitration, you remain unsatisfied, you can then file suit in the courts. Consumers should remember to buy cars only from reputable dealers and should read the warranty carefully and save all documentation related to the car and to any repair work for their records. If you have problems with your new car you should begin to keep the following records: a description of defects and details of contacts(including the date and name of the person with whom you spoke); a log of the amount of time the car was out of service and complete written records of routine service.

 

[jelloslug]

Yep, called that line and they are the ones who arranged the tow on trip 3. What I'd give to have my Grey Leaf back

Just sent my story to corporate (closed for the day). We'll see if I get a reply. at less than a thousand miles driven, I'm just disappointed. Had my Honda for almost 12 years with no problem at all the entire duration (short of paint that oxidized early ).

The Honda that I had sounds like the Leaf you have now.... I sent you a message with the contact info for the guy I bumped into.

 

[planet4ever]

I would be lying if I said I knew what the PDM did. I can guess it's responsible for distributing power LOL, but aside from that, is it a small part, big part?

It's a big part with a big job. Somewhere we had a labeled picture of the 2013 power stack with the PDM on top and the motor on the bottom, but I can't seem to find it. In any event, it appears the PDM is an integrated replacement for both the charger and the inverter. It is the top section of that big hunk of metal that takes up much of the space under the hood.

Ray

 

[hpver]

Our 2013 S is now in the shop for the third time for brake fluid leakage. First time they just topped off the reservoir; second time they diagnosed an internal leak in the brake booster control unit (I think that's what it called) (wrote about this earlier in the thread) and took 10 days or so to get the new part and get it in. This time they say it's a brake hose/line that's leaking and we are waiting for a replacement part from back east. Two days so far and still waiting.

I'm not impressed that they don't have a part a simple as a brake line in stock. Maybe because the car is new-ish? Anyone else experienced this with parts?

Starting to lose faith but hoping this time will be the fix. If it fails again after this repair I'll consider the California lemon law as that will be the fourth time.

FYI, if you live in CA like us, the lemon law guidelines seem to say that two failed attempts to repair a dangerous fault are sufficient to pursue lemon law proceedings; for other stuff it's four failed attempts, or 30 days loss of use of the car.

 

[HungryTurkey]

There seem to be a handful of recurring issues that plague a good percentage of the U.S 2013s. Brake leaks/failures, PDU issues, clicking in front left wheel area.

Mine's supposed to get it's PDU this upcoming Wednesday or Thursday. If they can get the car back to me on Monday, that will have been 3 weeks in the shop this time. As I'm leasing, I'll be seeking a refund on the months payment.

I'm still completing Lemon Law paperwork because if this doesn't fix the car, I'm done. They had the nerve to send me a survey for the latest service visit (the one that's still not done...) ... I hope someone looks at the results for those surveys. I went from being the biggest Lead advocate to being weary of the vehicle and disgusted by Nissan's actions (the whole processing of my insurance overage for the totaled car took 5.5 weeks from the time the insurance check cleared when they told me it would only take 10 days. I had to escalate out the nose. I've tried escalating this PDU issue in a similar manner, it all comes full circle, leading me to question Nissan's commitment to the Leaf.

 

[user 10599]

Gulp!

I bought my 2013 Smyrna built leaf 2weeks ago. Been loving the car and should get the home charger installed next week.

Out of town on business so my wife tries to drive the car. B4 she heads out, she says the brake light came on. Checking under the hood she thinks the brake fluid is low.

Hearing that, I searched this forum and found this thread. No sign at this point re 12v issues. But unreliable brakes is a scary thought. I also had not realized that my 3rd year production run car was actually a 1st year run due to the production now being in Smyrna. Ive always avoided 1st year models like the plague.

I will be sure to document the service attempts and let them know not to just top it off and claim all is good. They will be informed this is the 1st of 2 attempts they get to fix it b4 I get an atty and lemon law it back to them.

We love the car so far and hope they can get it right once they know I'm aware of the issue and will not tolerate silly games.