California, allies ready for emission-law war with Trump EPA, CARB head says

[Oilpan4]

Where I live the air quality is always good unless there is a grass fire, wild fire or dust storm.
If every one of the 661,000 vehicles in new Mexico miracled them selves into electrics over night only 1 county might see a slight improvement in air quality.

I say encourage more hybrid sales. My wife's car burns about 1/3 less gasoline then the comparable straight gas burner version of that car.
A lot of people here seem like they only want to buy big trucks and SUVs as status symbols so they can drive to and from work and to the grocery store.
Something that encourages people to buy a car instead of a huge show off vehicle would be much more effective at "saving consumers money" over mandating an suv get 18mpg instead of 17mpg.

Cleaner air by burning less fuel.

If they want to adopt a stupid California law, go with the gas guzzler tax for all non Comercial vehicle sales.
There's a tax I can support as it does not effect me.

 

[danrjones]

Cleaner air by burning less fuel would seem to suggest much higher gas taxes to discourage gas guzzlers. Compared to europe even CA has low gas taxes.

Or maybe a dmv renewal fee each year based on your cars epa mpg. That must include 3/4 and full ton trucks which are not even rated now.

Either way it's new taxes. Good luck with that.

 

[Oilpan4]

Cleaner air by burning less fuel would seem to suggest much higher gas taxes to discourage gas guzzlers. Compared to europe even CA has low gas taxes.

Or maybe a dmv renewal fee each year based on your cars epa mpg. That must include 3/4 and full ton trucks which are not even rated now.

Either way it's new taxes. Good luck with that.

That would make more sense than the proposed EV tax.
The Democrats here whom I made the mistake of voting for have yet to hear of a tax they didn't like.
So far they have voted to raise registration by about around 40% on all vehicles that one seems to have ran out of steam as earlier this year it looked like it would pass, the 10 cent a gallon fuel tax hasn't passed last time I checked it was in the senate where it will hopefully die, an increase on state income tax on everyone making more than $23,500 has met some opposition and will hopefully not pass.
In October there was talk of implementing an EV tax but as far as I know it hasn't been drafted but will likely be introduced next session.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Maybe combine higher fuel tax with a property tax rollback. Likely unpopular though because property tax bills are hidden in mortgage and rent payments vs posted on signs on every street corner.

 

[GRA]

ABG:

California, 22 other states sue EPA over right to set emissions standards
Suit against the EPA bookends one filed against NHTSA

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/11/16/california-trump-epa-emissions-lawsuit/

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

State won't buy ICE cars or other vehicles from manufacturers not supporting the waiver.

https://amp.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article237423024.html

 

[GRA]

IEVS:

Tesla, EV Makers, & Related Companies Join Hands To Back CA Vs Trump

https://insideevs.com/news/383186/tesla-rivian-california-against-trump-emissions/

. . . Bloomberg reports that a new coalition comprised of Tesla, Rivian Automotive, ChargePoint, Plug In America, Excelon, Pacific Gas and Electric, and others are going to bat to challenge "a preemption rule the Transportation Department’s National Highway Traffic Safety Administration unveiled in September that says federal law preempts California’s tailpipe emissions standards."

Essentially, the Trump administration plans to revoke the Clean Air Act waiver so that California will no longer be able to make its own policies related to emissions standards. The National Coalition for Advanced Transportation (NCAT) — representing California, several other states, and multiple environmental groups — informed the district court:

“NHTSA’s purported elimination of state authority through the Preemption Regulation adversely affects the marketplace for transportation electrification and deployment of advanced vehicle technologies across the country—undermining business opportunities for utilities, manufacturers, and infrastructure companies."

In addition to the above, several local air quality officials in California have already filed a lawsuit against the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). The organizations are working to prove that the NHTSA violated procedures by enacting the preemption rule.

Of course, the Trump administration is pushing back and demanding that the lawsuit gets moved to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit since there is already ongoing litigation surrounding California's waiver situation.

 

[GRA]

GCC:

Enviro groups challenge EPA’s revocation of waiver for California GHG standards

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/11/20191125-epasue.html

 

[Oilpan4]

Looks like the top 6 worst air polluted cities are in California.
Don't need them trying to dictate pollution control standards to the rest of the country.

 

[LeftieBiker]

You need a word of the day calendar. Yesterday's word could have been "Basin," today's could be "Inversion" and tomorrow's would then be "Oops."

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Looks like the top 6 worst air polluted cities are in California.
Don't need them trying to dictate pollution control standards to the rest of the country.

They have the most pollution because they have the most people. People = pollution (and habitat destruction, etc etc etc) That's why we need fewer people, or at the very least stop the increase, beginning with not having any more people move here.

 

[WetEV]

Looks like the top 6 worst air polluted cities are in California.
Don't need them trying to dictate pollution control standards to the rest of the country.

They have the most pollution because they have the most people. People = pollution (and habitat destruction, etc etc etc) That's why we need fewer people, or at the very least stop the increase, beginning with not having any more people move here.

California has unfavorable topology for air pollution.

As for population, start with this:

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/162/3859/1243

 

[Nubo]

Looks like the top 6 worst air polluted cities are in California.
Don't need them trying to dictate pollution control standards to the rest of the country.

But they should be able to dictate pollution standards for CA. States' rights.

 

[Oilpan4]

I couldn't help but notice, but having their own standards for more than 50 years still hasn't fixed the problem.

So what you're telling me is they have known topography, population and burning fossil fuels causes smog for at least 60 years and yet they continued to pack more people, more cars more stuff into and around the problem area for that entire time?
Yeah we don't need that kind of thinking infecting the rest of the country.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Apparently oilcan can't be bothered to look at photos or film of the LA basin in the Sixties.

 

[webeleafowners]

Apparently oilcan can't be bothered to look at photos or film of the LA basin in the Sixties.

Our family went to Disneyland in 1971. Coming from interior of BC we were stunned at the dark days caused by smog in LA. People who lived there just accepted it as normal but we had a rough two weeks of sneezing, watery eyes and congestion. My dad was blown away by the difference in air quality. I remember it well and I was a young boy. It has changed A LOT since then. We drove thru a couple years ago. Completely different. Huge improvement. We’ll be in LA next week driving thru to San Diego. It will be interesting to see it again.

 

[Oilpan4]

I have seen the pictures of LA in the 60s. There's not much to see.
So you consider the air quality there completely fixed?
According to the American Heart and lung association the air quality there still kills people. Just not as many or as fast compared to the 1960s. In 2005 it was definitely not fixed, saw it with my own burning eyes.
Maybe if I was stoned I wouldn't have cared.

I'm of the camp where 1 it never should have been allowed to get that bad and 2 fifty years should have been long enough to fix it.

I like how the people who can't even fix their own smog problem think they know how to save the world form the evil effects of CO2.
I think irony is the only thing they do well.

 

[LeftieBiker]

It's a waste of time arguing with his mindset, and its circular logic.

 

[Nubo]

I couldn't help but notice, but having their own standards for more than 50 years still hasn't fixed the problem.

It's made a big difference in air quality.

So what you're telling me is they have known topography, population and burning fossil fuels causes smog for at least 60 years and yet they continued to pack more people, more cars more stuff into and around the problem area for that entire time?
Yeah we don't need that kind of thinking infecting the rest of the country.

Yeah, that's what we do. We kidnap people from other areas, bring them here and "pack" them in. And their cars. Been doing it for 60 damn years. We are evil and insane.

 

[GerryAZ]

California is not trying to force their emission control requirements on others, just keep their ability to set more stringent standards for themselves. I grew up in a rural area in eastern Washington and remember visiting the LA area in 1966. My eyes burned the entire time and it was hard (or impossible) to see the nearby mountains. I moved to Arizona in 1982 and have visited LA numerous times since then. The amount of improvement is phenomenal and it only happened because CA set strict standards for vehicle emissions and kept making them more strict as technology improved. I hope they prevail in court against the current administration over these rules.