Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[TomT]

That has to be wrong. That would give a range of more than 5,000 miles...

I don't know what the duty cycle is, but the LEAF isn't using but about 250watts (about 1/3 horsepower) at 60mph (isn't that amazingly low?).

 

[Nubo]

Absent air resistance maybe

That has to be wrong. That would give a range of more than 5,000 miles...

I don't know what the duty cycle is, but the LEAF isn't using but about 250watts (about 1/3 horsepower) at 60mph (isn't that amazingly low?).

 

[TLeaf]

Problem #1 with a dyno: no air resistance. Once the car is up to speed, the only thing you're trying to overcome is the friction of all the assorted bearings in the rollers, wheels and electric motor. Still sounds bit low, though..

 

[mark1313]

I would not of called him but I would of emailed him ASAP on how angry Iam on the battery capacity lost..

I have his business card he gave me and it has email and cell phone and fax numbers.

But sorry I can not share the information. He would be spammed to death.

 

[trojanm50]

Just catching up on this thread. Im in the bay area and I have been seeing loss of range- although so far no missing bars. (Fingers crossed)

On 100% charge i get about 251 gids, the pack voltage is 391. I called and opened a case with Paul Smith. He asked me to call back when i lost the first bar. The fact that he kept saying *any kind* of range loss is absolutely normal was not comforting.

I am closing in on 20k miles. Has anyone else in the bay area seen their gid count drop or seen their actual driving range reduced?

It seems many people are selling their leaf- does anyone know if the 5k California rebate has to be paid back on a prorated basis.

 

[TonyWilliams]

That has to be wrong. That would give a range of more than 5,000 miles...

I don't know what the duty cycle is, but the LEAF isn't using but about 250watts (about 1/3 horsepower) at 60mph (isn't that amazingly low?).

EDIT: I totally blew chunks on this one!!

Should have said:

I don't know what the duty cycle is, but the LEAF at 60mph is consuming but about 250watt/Hours per mile (15kW), or 1kWh per 4 minutes (60/4=15kW, or 20 horsepower).

4 miles at 250 watt/Hours per mile is 1kWh consumed per 4 minutes, and we have about 21 kWh to play with on a good day. 4 minutes multiplied by 21 kWh equals 84 mile range at 60 mph.

 

[TonyWilliams]

It seems many people are selling their leaf- does anyone know if the 5k California rebate has to be paid back on a prorated basis.

Unless you transfer the car to another end user (not a dealer) in California. But, contact CCSE for details.

 

[cwerdna]

Problem #1 with a dyno: no air resistance. Once the car is up to speed, the only thing you're trying to overcome is the friction of all the assorted bearings in the rollers, wheels and electric motor. Still sounds bit low, though..

Yep. So, it might mean several hours on a dyno, per car in order to deplete the battery.

I'm not sure how many places would let you tie up a dyno for $160 for several hours, assuming the dyno could take it.

I did 2 runs at the same day and dyno on my 02 Maxima before and there's a bunch of time spent strapping down the car and all. Total time the wheels and rollers turning I'd guess was no more than 10 minutes total. The acceleration run wasn't long and you're not supposed to press the brake (may damage the dyno), so you gotta coast down.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Yep. So, it might mean several hours on a dyno, per car in order to deplete the battery.

I'm not sure how many places would let you tie up a dyno for $160 for several hours, assuming the dyno could take it.

65-70 mph, less than an hour.

 

[OrientExpress]

For you guys who want to have indirect contact with Mark Perry, the San Fran BayLEAF guys can contact him.
http://sfbayleafs.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Please use the email [email protected] for your inquiries and we will do our best to get you a reply.

 

[surfingslovak]

65-70 mph, less than an hour.

TLeaf could have a point about missing wind resistance.

On 100% charge i get about 251 gids, the pack voltage is 391. I called and opened a case with Paul Smith. He asked me to call back when i lost the first bar. The fact that he kept saying *any kind* of range loss is absolutely normal was not comforting.

I would be aware of only two Leafs with similar or worse Gid count in NorCal. The problem is that we don't have a very large vehicle sample, although we had several owners check their batteries. Gids were down between 2%-5% in this particular owner group. They all lived either by the coast or not far from it.

As already mentioned, I believe that your pack voltage is consistently low. We typically see 394 or 394.5 Volt on a fully charged and well balanced pack.

Unless you transfer the car to another end user (not a dealer) in California. But, contact CCSE for details.

Interesting! So it sounds like I might want to find a new individual owner instead of going the Carmax route? What appeals to me there is the convenience and they make decent buyout offers.

 

[Stoaty]

4 miles at 250 watts is 1kWh consumed, and we have about 21 kWh to play with on a good day. 4 times 21 equals 84 mile range at 60 mph.

If 1 kwh is consumed in 4 minutes that would be about 15 kw by my calculation.

 

[RegGuheert]

4 miles at 250 watts is 1kWh consumed, and we have about 21 kWh to play with on a good day. 4 times 21 equals 84 mile range at 60 mph.

You would need to run for FOUR HOURS to consume 1 kWh at 250 W, not 4 minutes. You are off by a factor of 60. The LEAF consumes about 15 kW at 60 MPH.

 

[cwerdna]

The LEAF consumes about 15 kW at 60 MPH.

Is this on a road w/air resistance or on a dyno?

 

[RegGuheert]

The LEAF consumes about 15 kW at 60 MPH.

Is this on a road w/air resistance or on a dyno?

On the road, but I would hope you could dial in the power level you wanted on the dyno, allowing you to match it.

 

[palmermd]

4 miles at 250 watts is 1kWh consumed, and we have about 21 kWh to play with on a good day. 4 times 21 equals 84 mile range at 60 mph.

If you are going 4 miles per hour, this is true. At 60 mph you burn the 250 watts in 4 minutes which puts the power at 15 times as much or about 15kW.

oops...I see you beat me to it.

You would need to run for FOUR HOURS to consume 1 kWh at 250 W, not 4 minutes. You are off by a factor of 60. The LEAF consumes about 15 kW at 60 MPH.

 

[Nubo]

4 miles at 250 watts is 1kWh consumed, and we have about 21 kWh to play with on a good day. 4 times 21 equals 84 mile range at 60 mph.

You would need to run for FOUR HOURS to consume 1 kWh at 250 W, not 4 minutes. You are off by a factor of 60. The LEAF consumes about 15 kW at 60 MPH.

I think I see the miscommunication. Seems Tony meant 250 wH/mile but the sentence read as a rate of 250 watts.

 

[palmermd]

I think I see the miscommunication. Seems Tony meant 250 wH/mile but the sentence read as a rate of 250 watts.

But in the context of whether or not you are going to overload a dyno by running for an hour at 250 watts versus 15,000 watts, it is a big difference.

 

[derkraut]

I'm getting a headache!!!!! :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :?

 

[mksE55]

The Dyno I have is a DynoJet Dyno, which you can never over heat. basically its a 5000lb drum that is calibrated for size and wt, then calculates force of inertia. This spins freely so you can not adjust resistance, granted this is how the auto makers used to get fuel economy in the past and is less realistic than driving on a road. That said it can reproduce runs very consistently and thus show minor changes as it related to power. I think it would be fine to show energy used for distance traveled but I would not use that number for real world mileage. I may just check my car out to be able to gauge my distance now with recent 1 bar loss, and then again in a few months if someone wants to see weather changes. (hope I dont lose another bar) or I will show , distance lost when losing another bar.