Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[JimSouCal]

My battery capacity is now down 9-10% by Gid count. 100% charge = 253, 80% charge = 212. This is in spite of:

--In my 15 months of Leaf ownership I have only charged to 100% about 10 times.
--Never QC (I can't since I have an SV)
--My Leaf has spent approximately 92% of its life at 5 bars, the other 8% at 6 bars, never saw 7 bars
--I drive like an old lady to get best possible miles/kwh = minimum stress on the battery
--Latest Gid counts were measured at 5 temperature bars
--A 100% charge had no effect to improve Gid count, have never seen any evidence that my battery is out of balance.

I have never seen any evidence of Gid count being temperature dependent in my leaf in my environment.

It would not be possible to treat a Leaf more gently than I have treated mine. I think this battery capacity loss problem is going to turn out badly for Nissan unless they can pull a rabbit out of the hat.

Near identical charging pattern here (but did see 7 bars once), but with only about 5,600 miles on the odometer...

No Gid meter here, but I also work/reside in WLA/Santa Monica, and now get the occasional 80% charge almost immediately going to 9 bars... I have been wondering what is "a normal and reasonable" capacity loss? Clearly not the 3-4 bar loss results being seen in hotter environs like Phoenix...

 

[Stoaty]

Near identical charging pattern here (but did see 7 bars once), but with only about 5,600 miles on the odometer...

No Gid meter here, but I also work/reside in WLA/Santa Monica, and now get the occasional 80% charge almost immediately going to 9 bars... I have been wondering what is "a normal and reasonable" capacity loss? Clearly not the 3-4 bar loss results being seen in hotter environs like Phoenix...

I would be happy to meet you and connect up my Gid meter to your Leaf, just PM me if interested. Probably can't do it for about 2 weeks, though--preparing for trip to Yellowstone.

 

[FairwoodRed]

... I have been wondering what is "a normal and reasonable" capacity loss? Clearly not the 3-4 bar loss results being seen in hotter environs like Phoenix...

I’ve been thinking about what is reasonable capacity loss lately. If I go with 80% remaining in 5 years, and assume that it is linear (I know, I know). That comes out to 56 gids lost in 5 years. Going by months, that is one gid per month. Going by miles (12,000 per year?) that is one gid per 1,000 miles.

Those assumptions make the numbers easy to work. For myself, I’m at 14 months and 26,000 miles. I’m showing an average of 264 gids, or 17 gids lost here in the Seattle area. So far I think I’m on track for reasonable capacity loss.

I don’t know if TaylorSFGuy has reported his recent gidmeter readings, but I think he is also beating the bar that I’ve set.

I’d love to hear other thoughts on my assumptions/estimations.

 

[mwalsh]

I don’t know if TaylorSFGuy has reported his recent gidmeter readings, but I think he is also beating the bar that I’ve set.

I’d love to hear other thoughts on my assumptions/estimations.

I'm keeping track of mine:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnSYHt_rpvYydGlLZ3dOZ1dfTlFRS2JsTlo1V1ptVHc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Currently tracking at around anywhere from mid-to-high 230s to mid-to-high 240s (it swings pretty wildly each day). An apparently loss that's at least twice what you're experiencing. Unless, of course, I get a bounce back with cooler temps in a few months - before summer hit in earnest (this time in July) I was typically tracking around 10 gids higher.

 

[mwalsh]

I have been wondering what is "a normal and reasonable" capacity loss? Clearly not the 3-4 bar loss results being seen in hotter environs like Phoenix...

Wouldn't we all! That's why, even though I've not lost a capacity bar yet, I'm going to get a case number when I do, irrespective of when into the life-cycle of my car it is.

Until Nissan offers up an expectation of what we should be seeing and when, we've no idea what is "normal and reasonable".

 

[TonyWilliams]

Until Nissan offers up an expectation of what we should be seeing and when, we've no idea what is "normal and reasonable".

I suspect what Nissan thinks (Mark Perry says in a video that 20% in 5 years and 30% in 10 years is "gradual") is normal is whatever costs them the least amount of money. Plus, they can easily change the displays, and redefine any data to whatever they want (and appear to be engaging in, with TickTock's Casa Grande car getting all 12 capacity bars, yet still having grossly disminished range from new (we will test his car Saturday).

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i just rolled 21,000 miles but nearly 20 months of ownership which i think is more critical. as far as GID count, hard to say. its ranging from 265 to 275ish. i am not currently in the position to do full charges more than occasionally so that makes it impossible to get a real value.

i normally charge 4-5 days in a row and take a reading. last full charge was this morning and at 270. previous full charge was Friday and that was 265

ooops... "someone" posted this before i had a chance to finish my thought

but considering my loss of about 10-15 GID. i have to consider most of that a combination of cycling and age.

i have only seen 7 TBs once for about 3 hours and that was a "perfect" storm for this area when it was in the 90's and i had just finished my 2nd QC of the day.

so if we look at Sloaty and his differential loss we might conclude that even mild temperatures do play a part as well

 

[theaveng]

Nissan should have been smart [read: devious] like Honda. In the Honda hybrid the battery gauge automatically recalibrates every 10,000 miles or so. Nissan could have done the same, and made the gauge look 100% even if the battery is only 50%.
Also I was depressed because my old car's handle broke off, and it cost $230 to fix. But that's rather cheaper compared to having a Leaf with a bad battery that will cost ~$10,000 to replace.

 

[JimSouCal]

Nissan should have been smart like Honda. In the Honda hybrid the battery gauge automatically recalibrates every 10,000 miles or so. Nissan could have done the same, and made the gauge look 100% even if the battery is only 50%.

It's much better to know you can only drive 40 miles on the freeway on a full charge rather than 60, me thinks... I have hopes that the eventual release of "LEAFSCAN" may bring some light (and maybe control) on the black box of the LEAF's battery operation...

 

[Stoaty]

Over the weekend I added a new section to the Wiki "Factors Affecting Battery Capacity Loss" so it is easier to find past discussions and all the material is in one place:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Battery_Capacity_Loss#Factors_Affecting_Battery_Capacity_Loss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I also added a bit more material to the "What To Do" section:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Battery_Capacity_Loss#What_To_Do" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I will probably move some of the material from the "What to Do" section to the new section, plus still needs more editing and rearrangement.

Please suggest any links to discussions on MNL about other studies that I may have missed, or corrections, additions, updates, etc.

 

[theaveng]

It's much better to know you can only drive 40 miles on the freeway on a full charge rather than 60, me thinks...

Honda's battery recalibration hides the battery's degradation, and it would be true for Nissan as well. That would be bad for you, but good for Nissan's corporate repair budget. (Note when I said "smart" I actually meant devious or deceitful.) Also if my hybrid only has 50% battery it doesn't affect my range.

 

[RegGuheert]

Over the weekend I added a new section to the Wiki "Factors Affecting Battery Capacity Loss" so it is easier to find past discussions and all the material is in one place:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Battery_Capacity_Loss#Factors_Affecting_Battery_Capacity_Loss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I also added a bit more material to the "What To Do" section:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Battery_Capacity_Loss#What_To_Do" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I will probably move some of the material from the "What to Do" section to the new section, plus still needs more editing and rearrangement.

Please suggest any links to discussions on MNL about other studies that I may have missed, or corrections, additions, updates, etc.

Stoaty, I just want to say "Thank you! You are doing an excellent job updating and maintaining the Wiki! It is very much appreciated!

And while I am at it, I will also say thanks to all the others who contribute to the Wiki!

 

[DesertDenizen]

Stoaty, I just want to say "Thank you! You are doing an excellent job updating and maintaining the Wiki! It is very much appreciated!

And while I am at it, I will also say thanks to all the others who contribute to the Wiki!



+1. Kudos to all my informative fellow Leafers!

 

[nosuchthing]

Really thanks for the Wiki site. Extremely well done.

Those capacity bars missing pics scared the f** out of me. Nissan really needs to step up to the plate. Period.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

It's much better to know you can only drive 40 miles on the freeway on a full charge rather than 60, me thinks...

Honda's battery recalibration hides the battery's degradation, and it would be true for Nissan as well. That would be bad for you, but good for Nissan's corporate repair budget. (Note when I said "smart" I actually meant devious or deceitful.) Also if my hybrid only has 50% battery it doesn't affect my range.

i can see the Volt getting away with that, but not the LEAF. it uses all the battery it can so nothing to hide here.

 

[nosuchthing]

It does not seem the Leaf recalibrates anything because your capacity loss is in plain sight on your dial looking like a missing tooth, or two.

I'm actually surprised Nissan lets us see it like that, screamin' at ya.

 

[RegGuheert]

It does not seem the Leaf recalibrates anything because your capacity loss is in plain sight on your dial looking like a missing tooth, or two.

It recalibrates the charge remaining bars so that a full charge always gives 12 bars.

 

[vrwl]

A guy can only bang his head against the wall so many times while trying to get through to Nissan, so we reached out to just a few others tonight...

Nissan Arbitration
Arizona Better Business Bureau
Lawyers
Senator John Kyl
Senator John McCain
Congressman Ben Quayle
Arizona Attorney General
Environmental Protection Agency
NHTSA, Office of Defects Investigation
Consumer Reports
Federal Trade Commission (server maintenance... will complete the form tomorrow)
Center for Auto Safety
J.D. Power and Associates
Edmunds.com
Cars.com
NADAguides
Kelley Blue Book
Mitt Romney Campaign

Help! Give me more people to complain to! The more I can annoy Nissan and spread the word, the better!

Dateline NBC - A Chris Hanson hidden camera expose would be great to show whether or not potential AZ (and TX) customers are being told about the battery issues before they purchase the vehicle

 

[leafkabob]

Here is a new article that mentions Mr. Palmer's statement in Australia that there isn't a problem.

http://www.plugincars.com/recent-tr...harsh-climates-selling-their-cars-124343.html

One of the more interesting comments below the article:
Anonymous (not verified) · 57 min ago

Those owners who are giving up on their LEAF remind me of those who lost money by messing with their 401K accounts during the 2008 crash instead of riding out the storm. I own a LEAF and am an active member of the MyNissanLeaf forum. The battery degradation issue only affects a few dozen owners. This has been blown out of proportion by the media. It has only been a few months and anyone who thinks a large company like Nissan would react quickly does not understand the auto industry. This is not a safety issue therefore the government will not force Nissan into a recall over this. Patience Please!

Boy, does that sound familiar!

 

[abasile]

Have either of you tried to verify the accuracy of your loss of gid count as a measure of available battery capacity with either a range test or charge capacity test, as compared to earlier results?

I've never methodically done either, and don't intend to. I suspect, however, that my range has not dropped quite as much as the gid count seems to indicate. The question is, how accurately is the BMS estimating capacity loss?

Also, my car's gid losses seem to have leveled off, at least for now. It's been holding steady at 213 gids at 80% for at least several weeks. That might or might not be the result of substantially reducing the amount of time the car spends parked in the hot valley below. Compared to the valley, it's generally 15-20 degrees (Fahrenheit) cooler up here in the mountains. Note that we are still racking up at least 1500 miles per month; that hasn't changed much.