Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[DaveinOlyWA]

Water is nothing like oil. There is a scarcity of water because we don't recycle it at the same rate we grow in consumption.
Oil takes millions of years to make.

We are sitting on 100 billion 'saudi arabias' of water... we just need to get the salt out of it.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/13/us-usa-desalination-idUSBRE92C05720130313" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

right and when you add in the cost of desalination, that is when water becomes more costlier than oil


funny thing about it though. the bulk of oil is used for purposes that other energy sources could easily do but dont due to pennies...or dollars or hundreds of dollars.

there will come when you will need every penny earned from that oil to keep an area from dying. pumping water from the Mississippi wont do it. they had their own water shortage issues last year without that drain. Besides, the ocean is much closer.

cant help but wonder what the maintenance costs will be on machinery that handles salt water all the time though

 

[dgpcolorado]

...We are sitting on 100 billion 'saudi arabias' of water... we just need to get the salt out of it.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/13/us-usa-desalination-idUSBRE92C05720130313" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The devil is in the details. Making large, perfect, sheets of graphene is a very hard problem. And if the graphene is perforated with nanometer holes the strength of the one-atom-thick membranes will be compromised somewhat. I also wonder about the choice of "nanometer" size holes since the diameter of sodium and chloride ions is smaller than that, although the hydrated ions might be considerably larger.

While I wish the research well, it reminds me a bit of battery technology: lots of new ideas that never see the light of day for one reason or another.

 

[Volusiano]

Making large, perfect, sheets of graphene is a very hard problem. And if the graphene is perforated with nanometer holes the strength of the one-atom-thick membranes will be compromised somewhat.

I just came across this link from the Volt forum that talks about a new way of making high quality sheets of graphene with a consumer grade DVD drive. The upkick is that they might have accidentally came across a way to fabricate graphene-based micro supercapacitors using simple computer DVD burners.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Making large, perfect, sheets of graphene is a very hard problem. And if the graphene is perforated with nanometer holes the strength of the one-atom-thick membranes will be compromised somewhat.

I just came across this link from the Volt forum that talks about a new way of making high quality sheets of graphene with a consumer grade DVD drive. The upkick is that they might have accidentally came across a way to fabricate graphene-based micro supercapacitors using simple computer DVD burners.

Consider the sheer size of the filters needed for an industrial scale desalination plant. And those huge one-atom-thick membranes need to be perfect. Like I said, it is a hard problem.

 

[LEAFfan]

Making large, perfect, sheets of graphene is a very hard problem. And if the graphene is perforated with nanometer holes the strength of the one-atom-thick membranes will be compromised somewhat.

I just came across this link from the Volt forum that talks about a new way of making high quality sheets of graphene with a consumer grade DVD drive. The upkick is that they might have accidentally came across a way to fabricate graphene-based micro supercapacitors using simple computer DVD burners.

This was already posted in the 'New Battery Technology' thread. But it isn't about making graphene. They use liquid graphene on a disc, put it in a DVD burner, and it makes an ESD.

 

[Volusiano]

Making large, perfect, sheets of graphene is a very hard problem. And if the graphene is perforated with nanometer holes the strength of the one-atom-thick membranes will be compromised somewhat.

I just came across this link from the Volt forum that talks about a new way of making high quality sheets of graphene with a consumer grade DVD drive. The upkick is that they might have accidentally came across a way to fabricate graphene-based micro supercapacitors using simple computer DVD burners.

This was already posted in the 'New Battery Technology' thread. But it isn't about making graphene. They use liquid graphene on a disc, put it in a DVD burner, and it makes an ESD.

I think it started out being about finding an easier process to make graphene. But in the process, they stumbled on the fact that it can be turned into an effective super capacitor.

 

[davekern]

Yes to buyback and yes if I could get a deal on a rav4 ev. Still like the idea of ev, just not air cooled Nissan technology.

You can get a Rav4 EV. There are three dealers in San Diego selling them; Mossy, Carlsbad and Frank. The dealers known to have several in stock are all up in LA/OC; Tustin and Carson. If you buy by Monday, March 4, 2013, the deal is:

$49,800+$845 (destination charge) Options are floor mats and $200 for "blizzard pearl" paint
-$10K (Toyota cash for 0% / 60 month financing)
-$10K ($7500 fed tax credit and $2500 state rebate)
-$4000 (maximum known dealer discount)
=$26,645


plus typical $40-$80 doc fee, sales tax on the whole price minus dealer discount only, and DMV fees.

So Nissan bought back my Leaf on Friday and I have been looking at the RAV4s. I'd like to get some kind of dealer discount. Can anyone tell me who in San Diego is discounting? I'd like to lock it in while Toyota is offering the $10k off deal. Thanks for any help!
Dave

 

[Volusiano]

So Nissan bought back my Leaf on Friday and I have been looking at the RAV4s.

It's interesting that there's a LEAF in San Diego qualified for a buyback. I know many people who got denied on their buyback requests would love to know the statistics on your LEAF to see if they can understand Nissan's buyback criteria better. For example, how many capacity bars you lost, your LEAF's mileage, year bought, etc.

 

[cwerdna]

So Nissan bought back my Leaf on Friday and I have been looking at the RAV4s.

It's interesting that there's a LEAF in San Diego qualified for a buyback. I know many people who got denied on their buyback requests would love to know the statistics on your LEAF to see if they can understand Nissan's buyback criteria better. For example, how many capacity bars you lost, your LEAF's mileage, year bought, etc.

Yes, we'd all like to know!

Davekern: You might be better off digging around in http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. The $10K incentive ends today... but I wouldn't be surprised if Toyota extends it. If they do, I wouldn't be too surprised if they reduce the incentive a bit.

 

[TonyWilliams]

So Nissan bought back my Leaf on Friday and I have been looking at the RAV4s.

It's interesting that there's a LEAF in San Diego qualified for a buyback. I know many people who got denied on their buyback requests would love to know the statistics on your LEAF to see if they can understand Nissan's buyback criteria better. For example, how many capacity bars you lost, your LEAF's mileage, year bought, etc.

Yes, we'd all like to know!

Davekern: You might be better off digging around in http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. The $10K incentive ends today... but I wouldn't be surprised if Toyota extends it. If they do, I wouldn't be too surprised if they reduce the incentive a bit.

It was extended until 4/30/2013.

I would call Carson Toyota and make a deal. You can drive it home with a full 100% "extended" with the heater OFF at 65mph (142 mile range).

Take the train up and have them pick you up from the train station. When you get it, meet us in Poway on Saturday morning of April 20, 2013.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=155193#p155193" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[surfingslovak]

I have it on good authority that Yanquetino's LEAF lost a bar yesterday. For those, who don't remember him, he lives in a hot desert climate and published an extensive rebuttal of the Phoenix range test and its conclusions on his blog, which upset some of the affected owners. There were couple of similar reports elsewhere. It looks like the upcoming summer months could be busy again. Wasn't there supposed to be a firmware update this spring?

 

[RegGuheert]

Wasn't there supposed to be a firmware update this spring?

Yes, and this will be one firmware update which I intend to sit out for as long as I absolutely can. I'll remain on the sidelines and let the dust settle to see how it goes for others before I consider diving in. Of course, Nissan may force it to be done at the next battery check, since both seem to be tied to warranty coverage.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

what is the update supposed to address?

 

[Volusiano]

I have it on good authority that Yanquetino's LEAF lost a bar yesterday. For those, who don't remember him, he lives in a hot desert climate and published an extensive rebuttal of the Phoenix range test and its conclusions on his blog, which upset some of the affected owners. There were couple of similar reports elsewhere. It looks like the upcoming summer months could be busy again. Wasn't there supposed to be a firmware update this spring?

Was that his first or second bar loss? And at how many miles/months since delivery, do you know?

What is the firmware update supposed to do? Recalibrate the capacity bars to be more accurate? And are they going to change the bar distribution (first bar 15%, others 6.25%)?

 

[smkettner]

If the update helps protect the battery why delay? Are you saying Nissan may take away some additional range in hot weather? Maybe that is not so bad in the long run. Many have clamered for 90% charging, maybe we will end up with it on hot days.

 

[Stoaty]

I have it on good authority that Yanquetino's LEAF lost a bar yesterday.

Poetic justice.

 

[RegGuheert]

If the update helps protect the battery why delay? Are you saying Nissan may take away some additional range in hot weather? Maybe that is not so bad in the long run. Many have clamered for 90% charging, maybe we will end up with it on hot days.

We got an update last year for our Honda Civic Hybrid which was supposed to protect the battery and we started getting battery issues within a few months. We were not alone.

I guess we've come to terms with how the BMS in the LEAF works and we have our own strategy for managing SOC to try to maximize battery life. While I would like to have more accurate gauges in the car, I'll wait to see what others have to say about it first.

Finally, I don't think we will need the capacity warranty for our LEAF, so I'm not sure it is important to get the update.

 

[surfingslovak]

If the update helps protect the battery why delay? Are you saying Nissan may take away some additional range in hot weather? Maybe that is not so bad in the long run. Many have clamered for 90% charging, maybe we will end up with it on hot days.

If what Andy said at the Phoenix Town Hall meeting can be taken literally, the update is supposed to make the capacity bar gauge more accurate. Or in his words, "less pessimistic". Phil seems to think that the battery controller could have a problem or two, and there could be an update for that also. It's tough to speculate about it, but given how fast capacity bars were disappearing last summer, it might be in Nissan's interest to do something about it.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I have it on good authority that Yanquetino's LEAF lost a bar yesterday. For those, who don't remember him, he lives in a hot desert climate and published an extensive rebuttal of the Phoenix range test and its conclusions on his blog, which upset some of the affected owners. There were couple of similar reports elsewhere. It looks like the upcoming summer months could be busy again. Wasn't there supposed to be a firmware update this spring?

His car only has 8000 miles according to the Nissan Facebook piece today (my post was actually deleted within about two minutes).

I'm sure he wouldn't notice anyway with that few miles driven, and can keep spewing the party line that even Nissan has given up on.

 

[Volusiano]

I have it on good authority that Yanquetino's LEAF lost a bar yesterday.

Poetic justice.

Nicely put!