Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[Valdemar]

Did the AHr value change? If not ignore it, GIDs tend to fluctuate from charge to charge.

 

[Deleted member 770]

LEAF # 5175 (delivered: 07/02/11) lost its 4th capacity bar on March 27th:

GIDS: 177
SOC: 91.75
AHr: 43.191
Hx: 44.74
SOH: 65
Mileage: 58,995

I've opened a case with Nissan Customer service and will be visiting my local dealer tomorrow to get the battery report to document the case and give them the authorization to order the new battery and retrofit kit.

 

[keydiver]

Mileage: 58,995

WoW! That's cutting it close! :shock:

 

[cwerdna]

Mileage: 58,995

WoW! That's cutting it close! :shock:

Indeed.

But, it's also disconcerting (but not that surprising anymore) that Nissan was clearly WAY off on their earlier claims as to the amount of capacity loss after x years. It's not like the LA area is Vegas, Phoenix, the Mojave Desert or Dubai...

 

[Valdemar]

LEAF # 5175 (delivered: 07/02/11) lost its 4th capacity bar on March 27th:

GIDS: 177
SOC: 91.75
AHr: 43.191
Hx: 44.74
SOH: 65
Mileage: 58,995

I've opened a case with Nissan Customer service and will be visiting my local dealer tomorrow to get the battery report to document the case and give them the authorization to order the new battery and retrofit kit.

Good for you. Mine is delivered 2 month later, same climate, I expect to lose the 4th bar no earlier than in 6 months and 80,000 miles.

 

[gbshaun]

LEAF # 5175 (delivered: 07/02/11) lost its 4th capacity bar on March 27th:

GIDS: 177
SOC: 91.75
AHr: 43.191
Hx: 44.74
SOH: 65
Mileage: 58,995

I've opened a case with Nissan Customer service and will be visiting my local dealer tomorrow to get the battery report to document the case and give them the authorization to order the new battery and retrofit kit.

Thanks for posting, and please let us know how it goes with Nissan.
I just lost my 10th, and project I'll be down to 43.2AHr by the end of the year (6/2011 delivery, will be ~40k miles by then)
Did you by chance record the data when you lost your 10th bar?

Shaun

 

[mwalsh]

Although we believe that bar 9 could disappear at around 43.25AHr on the high side, I can't find anyone who has actually lost it at that reading. ahagee's 43.19AHr is the highest reported I can actually find with a search, with brettcgb's 41.77AHr being the lowest reported.

 

[JRP3]

Jack Rickard claims you aren't really seeing capacity loss and Nissan isn't really replacing packs. He's also deleting my comments, (and maybe others), pointing out that he's wrong.

Around the 10 minute mark. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWSOSAfR8rQ

 

[TimLee]

Jack Rickard claims you aren't really seeing capacity loss and Nissan isn't really replacing packs. ...

Thanks for the info.
He does say a lot of stupid things.
How does anyone stand listening to his two hour video every week :?:
I like long form reporting, but two hours of Jack weekly is way too much.

 

[dhanson865]

Jack Rickard claims you aren't really seeing capacity loss and Nissan isn't really replacing packs. He's also deleting my comments, (and maybe others), pointing out that he's wrong.

Around the 10 minute mark. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWSOSAfR8rQ

If the 2011/2012 leaf packs are so great why isn't he buying all the sub $10,000 leafs he can at auction and redoing the instrumentation to his standards?

I'll put my money where my mouth is and buy one (with no intentions to modify the instrumentation). I doubt he'll do the same or the equivalent.

 

[mwalsh]

There is a part of me that still believes the instrumentation is at least partially at fault four the apparent capacity losses. This was reinforced some when I got the P3327 update and saw a real (temporary) increase in range accompanying the (temporary) increase in AHr. If the instrumentation was simply reporting optimistically post-update, I would have expected estimated range to drop faster rather than being able to actually drive more miles.

But anyway, the only focus now is making damn sure my pack reaches 8 bars before the end of this year. All else is pretty much irrelevant at this point.

 

[DaveEV]

I just lost my 10th, and project I'll be down to 43.2AHr by the end of the year (6/2011 delivery, will be ~40k miles by then)

Shaun, we live very close - I wonder why you're done about 3 more Ahours than me despite me having more miles and taking delivery the same month? What are you charging/driving habits like? Until recently, I've nearly always charged to 80% using an end-timer set to 5:30 to take advantage of TOU rates, though recently I've started charging to 100% more to make up for the loss of capacity. Still, I lost 4 Ah over the last year so with another year before my warranty runs out, I'll be down to 46 Ah and probably won't hit 8 bars until 5 1/2 years.

Jack Rickard claims you aren't really seeing capacity loss and Nissan isn't really replacing packs. He's also deleting my comments, (and maybe others), pointing out that he's wrong.

He's been saying that for quite a while now.

 

[JRP3]

How does anyone stand listening to his two hour video every week :?:
I like long form reporting, but two hours of Jack weekly is way too much.

I download the show and watch it in VLC player at 2x speed.

 

[keydiver]

I wonder why you're done about 3 more Ahours than me despite me having more miles and taking delivery the same month?

I have a very similar circumstance. I'm at 75% capacity at 34,000 miles, while another Jupiter Leaf owner at 30,000 miles just lost his 9th bar and got a new battery. :? We both took delivery the same week in December 2011, live in the exact same climate, and yet he had 9% more capacity loss in the same time period. The main difference is that his commute required him to do 100% charges every weekday, especially when he was driving Route 95 at 70 mph, and he was arriving home with very low charge. I work from home, and many of my recharges were only partial, from 30% up to 80%, sometimes twice per day, instead of LBW to 100%. I do know that you can get a ton more partial charges from a battery than full charges, so that is what I'm attributing it to.

 

[Stoaty]

I am currently at 51.88 Ah. Leaf purchased 6/12/11, have 39,200 miles. Charge to 80% most days, 100% once a week. Almost exactly matching the battery aging model for Van Nuys, CA (where my Leaf spends most days in the hot sun). Predicted Loss - 21.5% Actual Loss - 21.7%. If I continue to track the Battery Aging Model, I will hit 70% remaining capacity at 6.3 years of ownership and 65,000 miles, and 66.25% remaining capacity at 7.5 years and 77,000 miles. Leaf will meet my needs well down to 66.25% capacity (4 bar loss). Fingers crossed!

 

[dgpcolorado]

I have a very similar circumstance. I'm at 75% capacity at 34,000 miles, while another Jupiter Leaf owner at 30,000 miles just lost his 9th bar and got a new battery. :? We both took delivery the same week in December 2011, live in the exact same climate, and yet he had 9% more capacity loss in the same time period. The main difference is that his commute required him to do 100% charges every weekday, especially when he was driving Route 95 at 70 mph, and he was arriving home with very low charge. I work from home, and many of my recharges were only partial, from 30% up to 80%, sometimes twice per day, instead of LBW to 100%. I do know that you can get a ton more partial charges from a battery than full charges, so that is what I'm attributing it to.

In addition to the battery cycling you mention, if I make the assumption that you do not routinely drive at 70 mph, speed might also be a factor. High kW discharge rates increase battery heating. I see this because I have to use high kW rates to climb mountains, even though my speeds are moderate (mostly 30-60 mph). And the battery temperature increase while doing so is quite substantial. Just throwing that out as another possible factor.

 

[Deleted member 770]

Thanks for posting, and please let us know how it goes with Nissan.
I just lost my 10th, and project I'll be down to 43.2AHr by the end of the year (6/2011 delivery, will be ~40k miles by then)
Did you by chance record the data when you lost your 10th bar?

Shaun

Will do. Here's the stats from when I lost my 10th bar:

Date: 08/27/14 (3 years, 1 month after taking delivery)
GIDS: 204
SOC: 96.044
AHr: 47.3304
Hx: 51.37
SOH: 72
Mileage: 53,171

 

[gbshaun]

I just lost my 10th, and project I'll be down to 43.2AHr by the end of the year (6/2011 delivery, will be ~40k miles by then)

Shaun, we live very close - I wonder why you're done about 3 more Ahours than me despite me having more miles and taking delivery the same month? What are you charging/driving habits like? Until recently, I've nearly always charged to 80% using an end-timer set to 5:30 to take advantage of TOU rates, though recently I've started charging to 100% more to make up for the loss of capacity. Still, I lost 4 Ah over the last year so with another year before my warranty runs out, I'll be down to 46 Ah and probably won't hit 8 bars until 5 1/2 years.

That is interesting.
I have been plotting my degradation with frequent readings I've taken for the past 10 months.

Until I lost the 11th Bar last year I was doing everything I understood to maximize battery life: Charged to 80% unless I needed 100%, used the timers to charge at night, starting at 1am, and not charging just the final one or two bars. Given this didn't seem to help (and with the lower capacity) I've since been charging mostly to 100%.
The car gets used daily now for commuting to UTC (15 mi each way, freeway) with a weekly trip or two downtown San Diego,.... which now requires it to be plugged in when i'm there.

My guess on the reason for the difference,...temperature. I have a feeling you and i are right on the cusp of where there is some degradation, or none. My garage door is south facing and i suspect it's a few degrees warmer inside, enough to trigger the degradation.
My observations with regular readings over the past year is that ambient temperature is by far the biggest factor affecting loss. These past few weeks of Santa Ana winds has significantly accelerated my weekly Ahr loss.

Shaun

 

[gbshaun]

Thanks for posting, and please let us know how it goes with Nissan.
I just lost my 10th, and project I'll be down to 43.2AHr by the end of the year (6/2011 delivery, will be ~40k miles by then)
Did you by chance record the data when you lost your 10th bar?

Shaun

Will do. Here's the stats from when I lost my 10th bar:

Date: 08/27/14 (3 years, 1 month after taking delivery)
GIDS: 204
SOC: 96.044
AHr: 47.3304
Hx: 51.37
SOH: 72
Mileage: 53,171

Thanks,
I was as follows:
Date: 03/21/15 (3 years, 9 months after taking delivery)
GIDS: 201
SOC: 96.044
AHr: 47.36
Hx: 51.60
SOH: 72
Mileage: 33,023

 

[RegGuheert]

Our MY2011 LEAF lost its first capacity bar today. Here are some details:

Manufacturing Date: 6/2011
Date put into service as a demo vehicle: 9/29/2011
Purchase date: 3/16/2012
Odometer at purchase: 2011 miles
Date of P3227 update: 5/23/2014
Days/week in sun: 0
Date of first capacity bar loss: 4/6/2015
Odometer at first capacity bar loss: 24,467 miles
Capacity at loss of first bar (LeafSpy): 54.01 Ah
Hx at loss of first bar (LeafSpy): 66.34%

Added to wiki.