Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[leafkabob]

Since I'm flat on my back with sciatica, I have some extra time and decided to update the "3rd party" report by Opossum at the bottom, and to re-insert TickTock's 2nd bar loss which somehow dropped off of a previous list.

1. Azdre & Opossum - April 26, 2012. 16.6K miles/13 months ownership. Phoenix (2nd bar loss reported 6/14/2012 @~19K miles)
2. bturner - May 12, 2012. 13.6K/12 months. Phoenix (2nd bar loss reported 7/7/2012)
3. turbo2ltr - May 18, 2012. 13K/15 months. Phoenix (2nd bar loss reported 6/29/2012)
4. TickTock - May 20, 2012. 14K/12 months Phoenix (2nd bar loss reported 7/10/2012)
5. Volusiano - May 20, 2012. 16.5K/12 months. Phoenix
6. Mark13 - May 22, 2012. 15.7K/12 months. Phoenix (2nd bar loss reported 7/1/2012)
7. Leafkabob - May 26, 2012. 9.5K/12 months. Phoenix
8. Cyellen - June 7, 2012. 10.2K/ 14 months. Phoenix
9. RickS - June 10, 2012. 11.3K/13 months. Phoenix
10. Pipcecil - June 17, 2012. 20.2K/12 months. Dallas, Texas
11. Phxsmiley - June 17, 2012. 13.7K/10 months. Phoenix
12. AZknauer - June 17, 2012. 9.2K/13.5 months. Phoenix
13. Myleaf - June 19, 2012. 13.3K/14 months. Phoenix
14. johndoe74 - June 5, 2012. 13.5K/ 9 months. Phoenix
15. Matt Ferris - June 20, 2012. 15K/ 12 months. Dallas, Texas
16. Shrink - June 21, 2012. 10.2K/ 10.5 months. Phoenix (sold that Leaf, replaced w/leased '12 Leaf)
17. ravi100 - June 24, 2012. 13.1K/ 13.5 months. Southlake, Texas (no longer has Leaf)
18. ev4me - approx. June 1, 2012. 7K/ 15 mos. Phoenix (Dropped 2 bars)
19. jspearman - June 28, 2012, ?/10.5 months. Phoenix
20. Leafwing - July 05, 2012, 13.5K/15 months, Plano, TX.
21. GerryAZ - July 05, 2012, ?/?, Phoenix
22. ecoobsessive - July 6, 2012, 13K/13 months, San Antonio, TX
23. jhm614 - May 15, 2012, 25K/14.5 months, Arlington, TX (2nd bar loss reported on 7/7/2012)

24. DarkDave - June 15, 2012. 8.5K/14.5 months. Phoenix

Not reported by owner, but by others:
1. Opossum reported on another Phoenix car: Lost 1st bar @ 21.5K/ __ months. Lost 2nd bar 6/30/2012 @ 25.3K after 12 mos ownership. Lost 3rd bar 7/12/2012 @ 29.1K miles (from
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8802&start=990#p210171and http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8802&start=1210#p212356and http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8802&start=1230#p212377
2. Leafkabob reported a street encounter with a Leaf owner who stated he lost a bar after about a year.
3. Skywagon approx. May, 2012. Phoenix (supposedly no longer has Leaf)

 

[ttweed]

Interesting that this thread has now surpassed The official "I got my Leaf" thread in page count, 125 to 123. :shock:

TT

 

[RickS]

I'm game for a beer or two. I know the perfect bar too called the Roosevelt in down town Phoenix. It's central to most everyone and the Ecotality office is about 20 feet away so there are three Blink's available.

 

[KJD]

I'm game for a beer or two. I know the perfect bar too called the Roosevelt in down town Phoenix. It's central to most everyone and the Ecotality office is about 20 feet away so there are three Blink's available.

Maybe you should send an invite to Mark Perry also.

 

[September]

Interesting that this thread has now surpassed The official "I got my Leaf" thread in page count, 125 to 123. :shock:

TT

That is number one worry about LEAF ownership, so far we had nothing better than vague Nissan predictions combined with unwarranted capacity. This determines how useful will LEAF be to us and what would be real cost of electric motoring - which for some is main reason to choose LEAF.

 

[thankyouOB]

yup. Nissan made a big deal in the roll out of asking those who reserved what length warranty would fit their expectations and make the deal.
now, it turns out the 8-year warranty is full of weasel words.
sad turn of events.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

Interesting that this thread has now surpassed The official "I got my Leaf" thread in page count, 125 to 123. :shock: TT

I do not know if on the long run this makes a lot of sense, but not driving for more than month with high close to 100F I still have 274 GID after 7 mo and 7KM comparing to 2 mo old with 2Km and 265 GID driven during last mo. No reason to argue temp effect.

 

[opossum]

Time to take this car to the Nissan Dealer for the battery checkup. Does it still show 5 stars in all categories?

Yeah, not that it means much, but I think his 1-year battery check was nothing but 5-star ratings. I think he had it checked another time and had the same sort of report. This shouldn't surprise anyone, but even with 3 lost bars, it sounds like he's getting just as much resistance and denial from Nissan as my wife and I are with 2 lost bars.

 

[JasonT]

Add me to the list. Just discovered today that I am down a bar. 25.5k/15 months, Tucson, AZ

 

[Volusiano]

Add me to the list. Just discovered today that I am down a bar. 25.5k/15 months, Tucson, AZ

1. Azdre & Opossum - April 26, 2012. 16.6K miles/13 months ownership. Phoenix (2nd bar loss reported 6/14/2012 @~19K miles)
2. bturner - May 12, 2012. 13.6K/12 months. Phoenix (2nd bar loss reported 7/7/2012)
3. turbo2ltr - May 18, 2012. 13K/15 months. Phoenix (2nd bar loss reported 6/29/2012)
4. TickTock - May 20, 2012. 14K/12 months Phoenix (2nd bar loss reported 7/10/2012)
5. Volusiano - May 20, 2012. 16.5K/12 months. Phoenix
6. Mark13 - May 22, 2012. 15.7K/12 months. Phoenix (2nd bar loss reported 7/1/2012)
7. Leafkabob - May 26, 2012. 9.5K/12 months. Phoenix
8. Cyellen - June 7, 2012. 10.2K/ 14 months. Phoenix
9. RickS - June 10, 2012. 11.3K/13 months. Phoenix
10. Pipcecil - June 17, 2012. 20.2K/12 months. Dallas, Texas
11. Phxsmiley - June 17, 2012. 13.7K/10 months. Phoenix
12. AZknauer - June 17, 2012. 9.2K/13.5 months. Phoenix
13. Myleaf - June 19, 2012. 13.3K/14 months. Phoenix
14. johndoe74 - June 5, 2012. 13.5K/ 9 months. Phoenix
15. Matt Ferris - June 20, 2012. 15K/ 12 months. Dallas, Texas
16. Shrink - June 21, 2012. 10.2K/ 10.5 months. Phoenix (sold that Leaf, replaced w/leased '12 Leaf)
17. ravi100 - June 24, 2012. 13.1K/ 13.5 months. Southlake, Texas (no longer has Leaf)
18. ev4me - approx. June 1, 2012. 7K/ 15 mos. Phoenix (Dropped 2 bars)
19. jspearman - June 28, 2012, ?/10.5 months. Phoenix
20. Leafwing - July 05, 2012, 13.5K/15 months, Plano, TX.
21. GerryAZ - July 05, 2012, ?/?, Phoenix
22. ecoobsessive - July 6, 2012, 13K/13 months, San Antonio, TX
23. jhm614 - May 15, 2012, 25K/14.5 months, Arlington, TX (2nd bar loss reported on 7/7/2012)
24. DarkDave - June 15, 2012. 8.5K/14.5 months. Phoenix
25. JasonT - July 14, 2012, 25.5K/15 months, Tuscon, AZ

Not reported by owner, but by others:
1. Opossum reported on another Phoenix car: Lost 1st bar @ 21.5K/ __ months. Lost 2nd bar 6/30/2012 @ 25.3K after 12 mos ownership. Lost 3rd bar 7/12/2012 @ 29.1K miles (from
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8802&start=990#p210171and" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8802&start=1210#p212356and" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8802&start=1230#p212377" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
2. Leafkabob reported a street encounter with a Leaf owner who stated he lost a bar after about a year.
3. Skywagon approx. May, 2012. Phoenix (supposedly no longer has Leaf)

 

[smkettner]

Add me to the list. Just discovered today that I am down a bar. 25.5k/15 months, Tucson, AZ

At least you are putting some miles on it. :|

 

[azdre]

As you can see, I updated the title of this thread. 1 bar loss is the least of our worries at this point!

 

[Herm]

yup. Nissan made a big deal in the roll out of asking those who reserved what length warranty would fit their expectations and make the deal.
now, it turns out the 8-year warranty is full of weasel words.
sad turn of events.

IIRC this was after GM announced their 8 year warranty.. but Nissan does not offer that in any other market.. and to make things worse apparently the battery is rated for 1000 cycles, that is 3 years if you assume 335 cycles and 25k miles per year.

 

[charge]

".. and to make things worse apparently the battery is rated for 1000 cycles, that is 3 years if you assume 335 cycles and 25k miles per year."




Intersting question - what constitutes a charging cycle? If I plug in for a few minutes then disconnect is that a cycle? If I only drive 20 miles in a day and then charge back to 80% is that a cycle? My assumption was that a cycle was a full cycle from close to 0 up to full. Maybe others with more battery smarts than I could explain.

 

[Cheezmo]

Intersting question - what constitutes a charging cycle? If I plug in for a few minutes then disconnect is that a cycle? If I only drive 20 miles in a day and then charge back to 80% is that a cycle? My assumption was that a cycle was a full cycle from close to 0 up to full. Maybe others with more battery smarts than I could explain.

A charging cycle is the number of times the battery has been charged from 0-100%.

1 0-100% charge counts as 1 charging cycle.
2 30-80% charges count as 1 charging cycle.
5 60-80% charges count as 1 charging cycle.

Etc.

That at least is how companies like Apple count battery charge cycles.

 

[Herm]

That at least is how companies like Apple count battery charge cycles.

Thats how everybody does it, unless they are playing marketing tricks.

 

[shrink]

1 0-100% charge counts as 1 charging cycle.
2 30-80% charges count as 1 charging cycle.
5 60-80% charges count as 1 charging cycle.

Is that a typo? This is my understanding from the Apple page:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1519" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"About Battery Cycles

A charge cycle means using all of the battery’s power, but that doesn’t necessarily mean a single charge. For instance, you could use your notebook for an hour or more one day, using half its power, and then recharge it fully. If you did the same thing the next day, it would count as one charge cycle, not two, so it may take several days to complete a cycle."

 

[DaveEV]

"A charge cycle means using all of the battery’s power, but that doesn’t necessarily mean a single charge. For instance, you could use your notebook for an hour or more one day, using half its power, and then recharge it fully. If you did the same thing the next day, it would count as one charge cycle, not two, so it may take several days to complete a cycle."

That may be how Apple defines it, but in the battery world, 2 half cycles put much less wear on the battery than 1 full cycle - especially if you avoid charging the battery as full (IE, charging to 80% instead of 100%).

 

[Cheezmo]

I don't see any conflict between what I posted and what you posted.

30-80% is charging 50% of the capacity range, 2 of those equal one cycle.

Maybe my syntax wasn't clear.

30-80% means charging from a 30% SOC to an 80% SOC. Or a 50% capacity charge.

1 0-100% charge counts as 1 charging cycle.
2 30-80% charges count as 1 charging cycle.
5 60-80% charges count as 1 charging cycle.

Is that a typo? This is my understanding from the Apple page:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1519" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"About Battery Cycles

A charge cycle means using all of the battery’s power, but that doesn’t necessarily mean a single charge. For instance, you could use your notebook for an hour or more one day, using half its power, and then recharge it fully. If you did the same thing the next day, it would count as one charge cycle, not two, so it may take several days to complete a cycle."

 

[jspearman]

I'm game for a beer or two. I know the perfect bar too called the Roosevelt in down town Phoenix. It's central to most everyone and the Ecotality office is about 20 feet away so there are three Blink's available.

Roosevelt sounds good. Any other Phoenix drivers interested in getting together to chat about the degradation issue? Any night is good for me, so just let me know.