Boomer23
Well-known member
I also noticed kolmsted's comment about no longer being able to make the 83 miles to the dealer. Pretty significant impact, since he'll need a tow both ways, just to get his car looked at and his issues logged.
Doesn't seem to be the case. Just looked at the warranty:EVDRIVER said:I believe the Volt pack is part of the emission system like the Prius and thus must be warrantied as such. The capacity buffer allows them to keep it in compliance and under warranty. This is not required on a LEAF.
kolmstead said:LEAF #257 lost a bar over the weekend. 14,278 miles, white, nineteen months of ownership, zero QC, always charged to 80% using an end timer. No signs of the dreaded '9-bar to 80%' symptoms. I knew it was coming; we had 110 degrees every day last week. One day the battery temp was 7 bars most of the way to work, 6 bars when I got there, and then 7 bars when I drove home. Car sits out in the sun every weekday. I use about 10 kWh per day, so the car charges between 1am and 4am, when things are coolest. Oh, and it's still running original firmware. Ridgecrest, CA. Noticeable decrease in range. Can't make the 83 mile trip to dealer any more.
drees said:Major bummer. I do think you're the first in California - don't recall who else was aiming for that distinction. Certainly nothing more you could do in your situation to prolong battery life. Ridgecrest is just darn hot.
Probably.RegGuheert said:I'm wondering if this is why you never had "nine bars after charging to 80%" like others have seen.kolmstead said:Drees, the update didn't offer any advantages that I could use, and I hated the idea of 'hidden bars'. I was comfortable with the behavior of the DTE meter and didn't want it to change.
LEAFer said:See signature below for a GID check end of June (around 8% "loss", but no base-line to compare to when new).
That's interesting! Everyone we gathered data from in the SF Bay Area was 270 or above. Would you have any data points from other vehicles in Sacramento?LEAFer said:See signature below for a GID check end of June (around 8% "loss", but no base-line to compare to when new). The 9/12 is now happening maybe 1/3 to 1/2 of the 80% charges. Was hot (100-105F, 60F at night) here (Sacramento) for a week straight last week; now a little "cooler" again.
I would interpret the data somewhat differently: you have an 8% loss, but if you subtract 5% from your actual loss you will get a better indication of when one of the battery capacity bars will be lost. It may be that Nissan adds a "slop" factor to the battery capacity bars so that a car has to lose somewhat more than 15% capacity in order for the bar to be lost. Let's face it: Gids is Gids, and whatever percent you lose, you have lost that much battery capacity.LEAFfan said:Actually, your capacity loss is around 2-3%, not 8%. I know you are basing it on 100%, but if you choose to do that, then when your gauge reads '85%' after a 100% charge with L2, you would lose a bar as you would believe it to be a 15% loss. But if that were true, then all of these Phoenix area cars (that have been meter tested) would have lost a bar when the meter read 85%, but not one car did. They only lost a bar when the meter read around 80%, not 85%. I can't explain why this is so, but using 94-95% gives a much more accurate reading for capacity loss than using 100%.
Stoaty said:I would interpret the data somewhat differently: you have an 8% loss, but if you subtract 5% from your actual loss you will get a better indication of when one of the battery capacity bars will be lost. It may be that Nissan adds a "slop" factor to the battery capacity bars so that a car has to lose somewhat more than 15% capacity in order for the bar to be lost. Let's face it: Gids is Gids, and whatever percent you lose, you have lost that much battery capacity.LEAFfan said:Actually, your capacity loss is around 2-3%, not 8%. I know you are basing it on 100%, but if you choose to do that, then when your gauge reads '85%' after a 100% charge with L2, you would lose a bar as you would believe it to be a 15% loss. But if that were true, then all of these Phoenix area cars (that have been meter tested) would have lost a bar when the meter read 85%, but not one car did. They only lost a bar when the meter read around 80%, not 85%. I can't explain why this is so, but using 94-95% gives a much more accurate reading for capacity loss than using 100%.
Interesting points. I believe this goes back to one thing: we don't know what the relationship between Gids (or level in Nissan's vernacular) and permanent capacity loss is. Presumably, the capacity bars are displaying the latter, however it's calculated. If I'm looking at just one charge or trip, Gids are eminently useful, but we have yet to understand the slight seasonal variation we seem to be experiencing and the relationship to other battery characteristics (if there is one).LEAFfan said:Stoaty said:I would interpret the data somewhat differently: you have an 8% loss, but if you subtract 5% from your actual loss you will get a better indication of when one of the battery capacity bars will be lost. It may be that Nissan adds a "slop" factor to the battery capacity bars so that a car has to lose somewhat more than 15% capacity in order for the bar to be lost. Let's face it: Gids is Gids, and whatever percent you lose, you have lost that much battery capacity.LEAFfan said:Actually, your capacity loss is around 2-3%, not 8%. I know you are basing it on 100%, but if you choose to do that, then when your gauge reads '85%' after a 100% charge with L2, you would lose a bar as you would believe it to be a 15% loss. But if that were true, then all of these Phoenix area cars (that have been meter tested) would have lost a bar when the meter read 85%, but not one car did. They only lost a bar when the meter read around 80%, not 85%. I can't explain why this is so, but using 94-95% gives a much more accurate reading for capacity loss than using 100%.
True, gids are gids, but that can't be translated to actual lost battery capacity using the LEAF's bars, just lost gids. Your explanation may explain why 94-95% works, but all I'm concerned about is an accurate battery capacity loss reading and it doesn't matter to me how that is calculated. Nissan has said that when a bar is lost, it means a 15% loss of capacity. So to arrive at that, I found using 94-95% works and is accurate to within 1-2%. It also works for the next bar loss (6.25%). The meter will read 73-74% after an L2 100% charge when they have just lost the second bar and 75-76% when they are about to lose the second bar. Even most new cars (2012) here will only read 94-95% after an L2 100% charge. So I guess they've lost 4-5% already before they leave the lot. It probably depends on how long they've been sitting in the sun on the lot and if they are kept at 100% charge.
That may be true in Arizona, but I don't think I have seen that reported in California. Most people were reporting Gids in the high 270's to 281 when the Gid meter first came out. I was a bit disappointed because my initial 100% charge Gid reading (after 4 months of ownership) was only 272 (=96.8%). One has to wonder if dealers are leaving cars fully charged before the sale, which would be especially bad for those in hot climates like Phoenix.LEAFfan said:Even most new cars (2012) here will only read 94-95% after an L2 100% charge. So I guess they've lost 4-5% already before they leave the lot. It probably depends on how long they've been sitting in the sun on the lot and if they are kept at 100% charge.
Stoaty said:That may be true in Arizona, but I don't think I have seen that reported in California. Most people were reporting Gids in the high 270's to 281 when the Gid meter first came out. I was a bit disappointed because my initial 100% charge Gid reading (after 4 months of ownership) was only 272 (=96.8%). One has to wonder if dealers are leaving cars fully charged before the sale, which would be especially bad for those in hot climates like Phoenix.
kolmstead said:LEAF #257 lost a bar over the weekend. 14,278 miles, white, nineteen months of ownership, zero QC, always charged to 80% using an end timer. No signs of the dreaded '9-bar to 80%' symptoms. I knew it was coming; we had 110 degrees every day last week. One day the battery temp was 7 bars most of the way to work, 6 bars when I got there, and then 7 bars when I drove home. Car sits out in the sun every weekday. I use about 10 kWh per day, so the car charges between 1am and 4am, when things are coolest. Oh, and it's still running original firmware. Ridgecrest, CA. Noticeable decrease in range. Can't make the 83 mile trip to dealer any more.
1. Azdre & Opossum - April 26, 2012. 16.6K miles/13 months ownership. Phoenix (2nd bar loss reported 6/14/2012 @~19K miles)rjzastaury said:Have other Tucson LEAF owners lost capacity bars like the Phoenix owners are reporting? I lost one last month shortly after my one-year service. Ron (from Tuscon Area Leafers thread in this same forum)
jspearman said:I received the survey, too, but no calls and no follow-up survey.
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