cwerdna
Well-known member
Thanks for the update! Where are you located again? Somewhere in TX?pb1 said:
Hopefully whoever's maintaining the wiki entry for your car has enough info to update it, or perhaps you can do it?
Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs
- Thread starter azdre
- Start date
Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
Hopefully whoever's maintaining the wiki entry for your car has enough info to update it, or perhaps you can do it?
derkraut
Well-known member
jspearman said:Stoaty said:Thanks for letting us know about a great outcome! Your concerns are alleviated, and Nissan keeps a Leaf customer.spooka said:
This is great news. I'm still waiting on Nissan, so hopefully we'll get some good news, too. I told them that we would be happy to move to a 2-year lease, but no deal so far. Meanwhile, I drove from 100% to LBW on Saturday with AC off and only made 49 miles. I'm not happy, but I wait.
From 100% to LBW in 49 miles, w/o climate control? Amazing! I just turned 10,000 miles, and routinely drive 55-60 miles with 80% charge (10 bars) without reaching LBW. The last time I charged to 100%, I drove 70 miles, mostly freeway @ 55-65mph before I saw LBW. I do not use climate control (don't need it), run 42lbs psi, and drive 55-60 most of the time.
abasile
Well-known member
Congratulations to those who were successful in having their degraded LEAFs repurchased.
As for the intermittent regen bubbles in colder temperatures, that is something I have often observed. Our LEAF has been at four temperature bars for much of the last several days and the regen on our long, 5000' mountain descent has been significantly reduced, necessitating more friction braking. This is not surprising; just as a colder pack cannot deliver as much power as a warm pack, it cannot accept as much charge power either.
My sense is that the available regen varies according to a number of factors other than temperature that can change over short timescales, hence the appearance of the regen bubbles being intermittent. A significant factor seems to be how hard the battery has most recently been utilized. For example, during and immediately following spirited driving with a cold battery, there are typically fewer regen bubbles available. After prolonged coasting or leaving the car turned off, available regen typically goes up. For this reason, if I am trying to maximize energy recapture while descending our mountain, I will occasionally stop midway down and let the LEAF "rest" for at least 15 minutes or so.
As for the intermittent regen bubbles in colder temperatures, that is something I have often observed. Our LEAF has been at four temperature bars for much of the last several days and the regen on our long, 5000' mountain descent has been significantly reduced, necessitating more friction braking. This is not surprising; just as a colder pack cannot deliver as much power as a warm pack, it cannot accept as much charge power either.
My sense is that the available regen varies according to a number of factors other than temperature that can change over short timescales, hence the appearance of the regen bubbles being intermittent. A significant factor seems to be how hard the battery has most recently been utilized. For example, during and immediately following spirited driving with a cold battery, there are typically fewer regen bubbles available. After prolonged coasting or leaving the car turned off, available regen typically goes up. For this reason, if I am trying to maximize energy recapture while descending our mountain, I will occasionally stop midway down and let the LEAF "rest" for at least 15 minutes or so.
mkjayakumar
Well-known member
Shudder !!! Why not try the Volt ?
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
mkjayakumar said:
money probably. then again, Chevy has some pretty good lease deals as well
RegGuheert
Well-known member
This is our first winter with the LEAF and I am just starting to experience the restricted regeneration at cold temperatures that others have described. Recently on a trip over the nearby 600' elevation mountain at 45F, regen was restricted by one bubble until the SOC dropped *below* six bars. Fortunately there was still sufficient regeneration to hold the speed constant. I will make the same trip today at a lower temperature, so I will see if things change further. Also, as you say, regeneration bubbles seem to be affected by whether you are regenerating or not. What I typically see in the cold is that all bubbles are there when not regenerating, but as soon as any regeneration happens, the last bubble disappears.abasile said:
TimLee
Well-known member
Glad to hear that Nissan is proceeding with more buy backs.
But doesn't the LEAF market have a serious problem with all informed buyers now knowing the only reasonable choice on the vehicle is to lease it?
How is there going to be any reasonable price in the market for the used LEAFs that come off of lease?
Isn't Nissan going to have to switch to an "only lease the vehicle" sales model, and that model will also have to include leasing of "Used" LEAFs, with some sort of commitment on vehicle range for the life of the lease?
I bought, now have 10,000 miles on it, with 18 months of use. Haven't yet decided to sell it as Tony did. Still no lost capacity bars, but estimate battery capacity is down somewhere in the broad range of 6% to 12%. It may work OK for several years for me with 36 miles round trip to downtown Chattanooga from home. But with long term average so far of 3.4 miles per kWh, and degradation of battery pack that occurs with time, it appears my low mileage 10,000 miles in 18 months use might translate into a vehicle that needs a replacement battery at 60,000 miles / 9 years? I love the vehicle, and really want all future vehicles I buy to be primarily electric. But a vehicle that needs a $12,000 battery replacement at 60,000 miles / 9 years seems like a somewhat bad idea for the purchaser and for the OEM seller?
Nissan would be better off in the long run if they bit the bullet now, and proceeded to offer buy back to 100% of the people who purchased, and switch everyone to leases, both new vehicle leases and used vehicle leases.
Their original preference was to not sell the battery but lease the battery, but ran into legal difficulties with this.
I don't see how they have any successful business model at this point but to switch entirely to an "only lease the vehicle" model.
I don't know if they'll make any money at that. But they seem to be heading into a total disaster with selling the vehicles. A disaster for them, and a disaster for the purchasers.
But doesn't the LEAF market have a serious problem with all informed buyers now knowing the only reasonable choice on the vehicle is to lease it?
How is there going to be any reasonable price in the market for the used LEAFs that come off of lease?
Isn't Nissan going to have to switch to an "only lease the vehicle" sales model, and that model will also have to include leasing of "Used" LEAFs, with some sort of commitment on vehicle range for the life of the lease?
I bought, now have 10,000 miles on it, with 18 months of use. Haven't yet decided to sell it as Tony did. Still no lost capacity bars, but estimate battery capacity is down somewhere in the broad range of 6% to 12%. It may work OK for several years for me with 36 miles round trip to downtown Chattanooga from home. But with long term average so far of 3.4 miles per kWh, and degradation of battery pack that occurs with time, it appears my low mileage 10,000 miles in 18 months use might translate into a vehicle that needs a replacement battery at 60,000 miles / 9 years? I love the vehicle, and really want all future vehicles I buy to be primarily electric. But a vehicle that needs a $12,000 battery replacement at 60,000 miles / 9 years seems like a somewhat bad idea for the purchaser and for the OEM seller?
Nissan would be better off in the long run if they bit the bullet now, and proceeded to offer buy back to 100% of the people who purchased, and switch everyone to leases, both new vehicle leases and used vehicle leases.
Their original preference was to not sell the battery but lease the battery, but ran into legal difficulties with this.
I don't see how they have any successful business model at this point but to switch entirely to an "only lease the vehicle" model.
I don't know if they'll make any money at that. But they seem to be heading into a total disaster with selling the vehicles. A disaster for them, and a disaster for the purchasers.
Stoaty
Well-known member
The price for a replacement battery in 9 years is a big question mark, but likely a lot less than $12,000. I'm sure Nissan is banking on it.TimLee said:
surfingslovak
Well-known member
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Yes, I believe that they are factoring in lower battery replacement cost. As was said elsewhere, putting a new battery into a used EV can go a long way to extend its useful life. And if they threw in a new carpet and floor mats, it would be almost as good as new ;-)Stoaty said:
cwerdna
Well-known member
The abandoned target isn't as bad as the EV hate and misinformation I see in the comments.spooka said:
surfingslovak
Well-known member
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Indeed. The comments really take the cake, literally. And that despite Sandy and how well EVs compared to gas cars in the affected areas. All of the commenters should read the following report to see the inherent value of the electric drivetrain demonstrated. I just returned from a trip to NYC. The subway is back to normal, as if nothing has happened.cwerdna said:The abandoned target isn't as bad as the EV hate and misinformation I see in the comments.
Nissan LEAF Gives Options after Superstorm Sandy
Nissan would be doing a bloody sight better if they REALLY tried engaging with buyers. Both new ones AND current ones.
For a company that supposedly has a vision, they're doing a piss-poor job of helping themselves realize it! :roll:
For a company that supposedly has a vision, they're doing a piss-poor job of helping themselves realize it! :roll:
surfingslovak
Well-known member
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Did you see my report about the Born Electric Event in the other thread by any chance? BMW is doing a bit better on that front. We shall see if this continues, and how they will engage the owner community once the i3 launches in 2013. I'm waiting to hear if the public tour in NYC got the traction they hoped for.mwalsh said:
Herm
Well-known member
it will be real bad when used car dealers learn how to read the battery capacity bars.. right now all they look for in a hybrid is a red "check engine light"..
Randy3
Well-known member
A LEAF tech came down to Fresno from Livermore, CA to spend the day with my car. This was in response to my submitting a ticket for losing a capacity bar and seeing a decrease in range.
He asked about our charging and driving habits, then updated the car's computer with the grabby brake fix (a different issue, now fixed). Then he charged the car to 100% and did a battery check, taking the results with him. While he wouldn't give me any numbers, he did say the car is doing fine as far as he can tell. I can expect the 1-877-no-gas-ev folks to call me in a week or so with more information.
One thing of interest -- he says I've been charging the car incorrectly. He recommends charging to 100%, driving the car so it goes down below 50% charge (or more), then recharging back to 100%. I've been charging to 80%, pretty much every time I plug it in. I asked about the car sitting at 100% charged for 5-8 hours since I end the charge at 7am (due to PG&E time of use rates) but don't drive it until 2pm or so. He says this won't be a problem. After nearly two years of ownership, I'll have to retrain myself for this.
He was nice and spent time addressing my concerns. He sounded like he was going to take my comments up to management. I pushed that I'd like Nissan to at least set up a battery reconditioning program and communicate with us better.
He asked about our charging and driving habits, then updated the car's computer with the grabby brake fix (a different issue, now fixed). Then he charged the car to 100% and did a battery check, taking the results with him. While he wouldn't give me any numbers, he did say the car is doing fine as far as he can tell. I can expect the 1-877-no-gas-ev folks to call me in a week or so with more information.
One thing of interest -- he says I've been charging the car incorrectly. He recommends charging to 100%, driving the car so it goes down below 50% charge (or more), then recharging back to 100%. I've been charging to 80%, pretty much every time I plug it in. I asked about the car sitting at 100% charged for 5-8 hours since I end the charge at 7am (due to PG&E time of use rates) but don't drive it until 2pm or so. He says this won't be a problem. After nearly two years of ownership, I'll have to retrain myself for this.
He was nice and spent time addressing my concerns. He sounded like he was going to take my comments up to management. I pushed that I'd like Nissan to at least set up a battery reconditioning program and communicate with us better.
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