Complexity of the Volt

[Cheezmo]

Teardown Reveals the Remarkable Complexity of Chevrolet's Volt
A look inside the car reveals just how complicated it is.

http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/energy/27785/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Smidge204]

Teardown Reveals the Remarkable Complexity of Chevrolet's Volt
A look inside the car reveals just how complicated it is.

http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/energy/27785/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Complicated compared to.... what? How are we measuring complexity here?

The inanity of this article hurts my head. Nothing in the article explains how the Volt is any more "complex" (however that's actually measured) than any other hybrid that's been available for purchase for over the past decade. The battery is bigger, the electric motor is bigger, and the gearing is in a different order. That's pretty much it from a mechanical/electrical point of view. One would expect the Volt to have comparable long-term reliability on par with any other hybrid.
=Smidge=

 

[TomT]

No more or less so than the Toyota PIP...

Teardown Reveals the Remarkable Complexity of Chevrolet's Volt
A look inside the car reveals just how complicated it is.

 

[GRA]

No more or less so than the Toyota PIP...

Teardown Reveals the Remarkable Complexity of Chevrolet's Volt
A look inside the car reveals just how complicated it is.

I would think the Volt's planetary gearing system is a bit more complex than the PiP's, but otherwise you're right.

 

[Herm]

I would think the Volt's planetary gearing system is a bit more complex than the PiP's, but otherwise you're right.

The planetary gearing is about the same, but Volt uses several stationary clutches to reconfigure from low speed mode to high speed mode.. but complexity is about the same as a Prius..

 

[Smidge204]

The clutches? At worst it's as complex as a three-speed automatic. The Prius has a chain drive in it!

Thinking about it more, maybe the author is confusing "complexity" with "sophistication."
=Smidge=

 

[SanDust]

If you assume that ICE technology is a given, then, for better or worse, the Volt is vastly more complex than any other car currently in production. There is a reason why BMW is taking so long to get its EREV to market and while other car companies like Audi are so far behind. Compared to a Prius, the Volt may not be mechanically more complex but its battery management system and the integration of the battery with the engine are on entirely different levels.

Even the Leaf, which is about as basic an EV as you can get, has a lot of new complexities that a Prius doesn't have. For example, as discussed recently, even something as basic as plugging the Leaf in requires complete integration of the 12v battery which runs the charging electronics with the battery pack and the EVSE. You need a separate charger when the car is charging and the 12v battery must always be charging when the pack is charging and you need the pack to charge the 12v when the car is on. That sort of thing. Just a lot of things you have to take care of in a fundamentally different way than what happens in a normal hybrid that doesn't plug in.

 

[SteveInSeattle]

The Volt is clearly very "complex"-- First, it would be less so if they had used a passive cooling battery pack such as the Leaf's-- that would eliminate considerable complexity (and the lack of liquid in the battery pack would have made them less fire prone). Second, had the ICE been simply for charging and not also connected to the transmission it would have simplified the drive train. The reason I say this is that I expect there will be range extended electrics coming to market that come in with less weight, better gas mileage (when on battery depleted mode) and at lower price points. The extended range electric is a great idea if executed correctly-- and while I like my Leaf just fine, I see a much bigger market for a car with unlimited range. Hook the ICE up to a generator, period. Put it in the back, under the trunk. I expect this configuration within 3 years from Europe.

 

[KJD]

Teardown Reveals the Remarkable Complexity of Chevrolet's Volt
A look inside the car reveals just how complicated it is.

http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/energy/27785/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes I would agree, the volt is a complex beast. It does drive nice, but it has 2 of everything as in one electric motor and one gas engine. The transmission gets power from these 2 sources.

How many moving parts are in that gasoline engine?
How many moving parts in a Leaf electric motor?

How many parts in that volt transmission?
How many parts in that single speed Leaf transmission?

A Prius is also a complex beast, I know because I also own a 2006 Prius. It is a very good car, but a very complex car. I hope nothing big ever breaks on that Prius.

Time will tell, but I think that my Leaf will outlast my Prius, just because there are fewer moving parts, therefor fewer points of failure.

KJD

 

[Smidge204]

If you assume that ICE technology is a given, then, for better or worse, the Volt is vastly more complex than any other car currently in production. There is a reason why BMW is taking so long to get its EREV to market and while other car companies like Audi are so far behind. Compared to a Prius, the Volt may not be mechanically more complex but its battery management system and the integration of the battery with the engine are on entirely different levels.

Just in case you missed it, the article is a FUD piece trying to cast doubt on the Volt's reliability by tossing around the vague term "complexity." So in this context, arguing the Volt is "more complex" is the same as arguing the Volt is not as reliable.

Just thought you might like to know that before you waste any more time white-knighting for GM. :roll:
=Smidge=

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

not sure i agree that complexity is a bad thing here. it is all in how the complexity is managed. airplanes are much more complex as are ocean liners. they seem to do very fine

 

[scottf200]

Teardown Reveals the Remarkable Complexity of Chevrolet's Volt
A look inside the car reveals just how complicated it is.

http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/energy/27785/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sophisticated seems more appropriate. It blends the technology of electric (motor, regen 'brakes', accelerator pedal) with mechanical (ICE/GG, brake pads, CVT|MODES) in a very smooth and elegant interwoven way.

"UBM Tech Insights took apart the car’s battery and charging system to identify the components of each, and it’s making at least some of its results, including photos, available for free here" [here is a link where you can get these 3 presentation 'sent' to you via email links]:

• Infotainment Teardown Presentation: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5lA7Kfp45ULVjE0ZE1MT1paR2c" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
  Battery Pack Teardown Presentation: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5lA7Kfp45ULa1dSUmxScWdaY0E" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
  Charging System Teardown Presentation: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5lA7Kfp45ULcVpLYlRydkpIOU0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[ericsf]

not sure i agree that complexity is a bad thing here. it is all in how the complexity is managed. airplanes are much more complex as are ocean liners. they seem to do very fine

Well, piston engine airplanes were extremely complicated and unreliable. The jet engine is several orders of magnitude simpler and therefore more reliable. You made a great analogy: the Volt is the star engine airplane while the LEAF is the jet engine airplane.

I find that people often confuse advanced technology (such as using heat resistant alloys in jet engines) with complexity.

But back to the point, a simple system can be unreliable if it's poorly designed while a well crafted complex system can run for decades. However, it's mathematic that two systems made of equally reliable parts, one with less parts, one with more parts, the larger system will be less reliable.

 

[Herm]

Many of the older automatic transmissions used in cars are more complex, and have a higher parts count than the transaxle used in the Volt. It is true that the Volt has many computers, many connectors with many discrete electronic components in those computers and so on.. but I would not equate a resistor similar to a gear in terms of car complexity. I would not count lines of code in terms of complexity either.. it is a fact that so far the Volt has been reliable.

The new belt CVT and automated manual transmissions are simpler than the old style automatics, yet many owners complain of reliability and performance. All modern cars are very complex.

 

[ericsf]

Many of the older automatic transmissions used in cars are more complex, and have a higher parts count than the transaxle used in the Volt. It is true that the Volt has many computers, many connectors with many discrete electronic components in those computers and so on.. but I would not equate a resistor similar to a gear in terms of car complexity. I would not count lines of code in terms of complexity either.. it is a fact that so far the Volt has been reliable.

The new belt CVT and automated manual transmissions are simpler than the old style automatics, yet many owners complain of reliability and performance. All modern cars are very complex.

I agree. Only field testing and statistical data analysis can determine reliability. It's very difficult, if not impossible to determine the reliability of a system by simply looking at it. Discussing reliability based on relative complexity is pure speculation. But it's fun

 

[Amary]

…but it has 2 of everything as in one electric motor and one gas engine. The transmission gets power from these 2 sources.

Like the Prius, it actually has two motor-generators plus the ICE. All three are all combined in various ways by the drivetrain.

 

[LKK]

The Volt has 10 million lines of software code. I'm not sure if that's good or bad, but that's more code than the Boeing 787 or a lot of fighter aircraft, so I got to think it's one of the most complex cars ever made.

 

[TomT]

Regardless of what the actual number may be - though 10 million sounds quite high to me - I VERY seriously doubt that when you consider all the systems in either a 787 or a fighter.

The Volt has 10 million lines of software code. I'm not sure if that's good or bad, but that's more code than the Boeing 787 or a lot of fighter aircraft, so I got to think it's one of the most complex cars ever made.

 

[LKK]

Regardless of what the actual number may be - though 10 million sounds quite high to me - I VERY seriously doubt that when you consider all the systems in either a 787 or a fighter.

The Volt has 10 million lines of software code. I'm not sure if that's good or bad, but that's more code than the Boeing 787 or a lot of fighter aircraft, so I got to think it's one of the most complex cars ever made.

I agree, but take a look at this:

http://www-01.ibm.com/software/rational/announce/volt/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[TomT]

Well, maybe they just weren't very good at writing efficient code... :lol:

Regardless of what the actual number may be - though 10 million sounds quite high to me - I VERY seriously doubt that when you consider all of the systems in either a 787 or a fighter.

The Volt has 10 million lines of software code. I'm not sure if that's good or bad, but that's more code than the Boeing 787 or a lot of fighter aircraft, so I got to think it's one of the most complex cars ever made.

I agree, but take a look at this:

http://www-01.ibm.com/software/rational/announce/volt/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;