Daylight Savings Time

[nogajim]

Well as long as we are whining, why did I have to reset my account on MNL to tell it that DST was over?

 

[DarkStar]

Well as long as we are whining, why did I have to reset my account on MNL to tell it that DST was over?

For the same reason you had to tell your Leaf.

 

[mwalsh]

Well as long as we are whining, why did I have to reset my account on MNL to tell it that DST was over?

You went to the trouble of changing that? I just had it be an hour off all summer!

 

[johnr]

Well as long as we are whining, why did I have to reset my account on MNL to tell it that DST was over?

Why do that? It's more fun to post something and then find out it's what you posted an hour later :shock: :lol:

 

[scottf200]

<snip>So it is known how to solve the problem. But it is not a trivial problem, which is why some equipment manufacturers do not solve it. Yet another problem Nissan should fix in a future software update... (At least the center screen time; don't know whether they can fix the eyebrow clock without a hardware change.)

I bet you think I'm going to tell you how the Volt seamlessly handles. You would be incorrect. The Volt does not set it's clock correctly either. Apparently this is not trivial and both companies thought there were higher priorities. NO DOUBT both companies understand this is a feature customers would like. It was not an oversight. In fact, on the Volt they went to so far as to put a TP (Time Period) button on the main center stack so you could change the clock in a few seconds. Pretty silly that they spelled it 'TP' instead of 'TIME'. Yep a lot of angst by some Volt owners similar to what was shown in the above post.

Do I get any "points" for dissing my/the Volt and admitting to this equal flaw?

 

[Rusty]

The Volt does not set it's clock correctly either. Apparently this is not trivial and both companies thought there were higher priorities. NO DOUBT both companies understand this is a feature customers would like. It was not an oversight.

I think you're taking WOT's word that it's not doable for that on the Volt, and I don't think you have any way of knowingly asserting that for the Leaf. I'll agree with your "apparently", but you then continue on otherwise.

In fact, on the Volt they went to so far as to put a TP (Time Period) button on the main center stack so you could change the clock in a few seconds.

Actually I'd heard TP was originally for "Timed Programming" (for charging), but they dumped it as non-essential when the GUI didn't work right in order to not hold up the Volt's release. They changed it to setting the clock 'cause they needed the button to do something.

Pretty silly that they spelled it 'TP' instead of 'TIME'.

Not silly if it wasn't intended to do that in the first place. Changing plastics and labeling takes a lot longer than dropping programming, so my understanding is it's a hangover of dropped functionality.

Yep a lot of angst by some Volt owners similar to what was shown in the above post.

And Scott should have been able to predict to himself I'd argue with this post...

Do I get any "points" for dissing my/the Volt and admitting to this equal flaw?

Not from me! I don't know why you'd even bring up the point on MNL, unless somebody asked "what other EVs do this right?"

 

[shay]

Do I get any "points" for dissing my/the Volt and admitting to this equal flaw?

I am not sure why the Volt is being mentioned in this thread.

 

[scottf200]

The Volt does not set it's clock correctly either. Apparently this is not trivial and both companies thought there were higher priorities. NO DOUBT both companies understand this is a feature customers would like. It was not an oversight.

I think you're taking WOT's word that it's not doable for that on the Volt, and I don't think you have any way of knowingly asserting that for the Leaf. I'll agree with your "apparently", but you then continue on otherwise.

No doubt it is doable since so many other products handle it but at what "cost" and "time". My watch sets it's time every morning for example. Of course so does the iPhone 4S but that cost them some battery life it seems <grin>

In fact, on the Volt they went to so far as to put a TP (Time Period) button on the main center stack so you could change the clock in a few seconds.

Actually I'd heard TP was originally for "Timed Programming" (for charging), but they dumped it as non-essential when the GUI didn't work right in order to not hold up the Volt's release. They changed it to setting the clock 'cause they needed the button to do something.

Pretty silly that they spelled it 'TP' instead of 'TIME'.

Not silly if it wasn't intended to do that in the first place. Changing plastics and labeling takes a lot longer than dropping programming, so my understanding is it's a hangover of dropped functionality.

Wow, I can only hope that was the reason ... of course that'd be dumb too because how often do you do the charging programming times (assuming that is what you are talking about). Rarely. I have twice in 8 months. I think when you click it it does say Time Setting, tho. Two letters are not enough IMHO for anything.

Yep a lot of angst by some Volt owners similar to what was shown in the above post.

And Scott should have been able to predict to himself I'd argue with this post...

And Rusty should have considered that I wasn't even talking about him when I wrote that. There are dozens of folks that brought it up 6 months ago which is where my memory goes when this topic came back up a few days ago.

Do I get any "points" for dissing my/the Volt and admitting to this equal flaw?

Not from me! I don't know why you'd even bring up the point on MNL, unless somebody asked "what other EVs do this right?"

Because it backs the the point to posters/owners here that it may not be that trivial if both large car companies did not do it. 1 data point is not a valid sample ... 2 now we are getting somewhere. I actually thought that was quite useful but thanks for trying to prove a point.

 

[scottf200]

Do I get any "points" for dissing my/the Volt and admitting to this equal flaw?

I am not sure why the Volt is being mentioned in this thread.

Because it backs the the point to posters/owners here that it may not be that trivial if both large car companies did not do it. 1 data point is not a valid sample ... 2 now we are getting somewhere. I actually thought that was quite useful. Hope that better explains. I generally post for a legit / rational reason. I'm too subtle sometimes and folks AUTOMATICALLY make assumptions about my motives and that is the only perspective they then "read" my post from. My intentions are good and I've gotten many appreciative PMs from MNLers.

 

[mitch672]

FWIW, not many car clocks (do any?) adjust for DST, my Prius is just an in-dash clock, it's a 2010, and they've had 10 years to "get it right", you still have to manually adjust it twice a year. I don't think this is a big deal, really. Most of the mfrs are using an inexpensive mechanism, if it is not "date aware" you can't really expect DST to work.

 

[TomT]

Both my Acura and BMW clocks link to the GPS in the Nav and handle DST automatically.

FWIW, not many car clocks (do any?) adjust for DST, my Prius is just an in-dash clock, it's a 2010, and they've had 10 years to "get it right", you still have to manually adjust it twice a year. I don't think this is a big deal, really. Most of the mfrs are using an inexpensive mechanism, if it is not "date aware" you can't really expect DST to work.

 

[tps]

GPS sends a DST bit that equipment can use to control that parameter if it so desires. It was done that way to proactively deal with changes in DST that might be mandated by congress and which would otherwise obsolete hardwired equipment.

I don't think GPS knows or cares about DST.

Of course this would be a US DST bit, which would be useless in much of the world. They could have the option of paying attention to it, but much of the world would instead still need locale specific summer time rules.

 

[GPowers]

Do not understand why getting the clock right is such a big deal for manufactures. The Leaf has a GPS so get the correct time from the GPS satellite. The owner can indicate if his area uses DST or not, only needs to be set once (if the government would stop changing the date).

The Leaf also has and built in cell network connection to At&T. use that to set the time.

 

[mitch672]

Do not understand why getting the clock right is such a big deal for manufactures. The Leaf has a GPS so get the correct time from the GPS satellite. The owner can indicate if his area uses DST or not, only needs to be set once (if the government would stop changing the date).

The Leaf also has and built in cell network connection to At&T. use that to set the time.

yes, all of these things could be done, but at what cost? the Leaf is not a "higher end" car, its a basic econobox, really. Would people be willing to pay a few hundred more for this "feature"? I tend to doubt it. It's not an acura or a BMW, even though its getting to those price ranges, the actual "car" part is a $15K modified Versa platform, the rest of the $ is going to the battery pack...

 

[TomT]

Well, if they want to start selling them to the masses later, at the current price point, they are going to HAVE to address such issues because people are going to expect them at such a price... Particularly as rebates disappear or are reduced as they most certainly will be eventually.

Do not understand why getting the clock right is such a big deal for manufactures. The Leaf has a GPS so get the correct time from the GPS satellite. The owner can indicate if his area uses DST or not, only needs to be set once (if the government would stop changing the date).The Leaf also has and built in cell network connection to At&T. use that to set the time.

yes, all of these things could be done, but at what cost? the Leaf is not a "higher end" car, its a basic econobox, really. Would people be willing to pay a few hundred more for this "feature"? I tend to doubt it. It's not an acura or a BMW, even though its getting to those price ranges, the actual "car" part is a $15K modified Versa platform, the rest of the $ is going to the battery pack...

 

[TimeHorse]

Wow, I can only hope that was the reason ... of course that'd be dumb too because how often do you do the charging programming times (assuming that is what you are talking about). Rarely. I have twice in 8 months. I think when you click it it does say Time Setting, tho. Two letters are not enough IMHO for anything.

I find I'm tweaking the first charge timer on my LEAF every few days so that I can make sure I have 80% by 5am. The problem with the current LEAF design is that you can't set an end time and calculate backwards to figure out the start automatically, no doubt partly because the estimates for 240V charging are typically off by 10 minutes for every hour (the charging is faster).

 

[TimeHorse]

yes, all of these things could be done, but at what cost? the Leaf is not a "higher end" car, its a basic econobox, really. Would people be willing to pay a few hundred more for this "feature"? I tend to doubt it. It's not an acura or a BMW, even though its getting to those price ranges, the actual "car" part is a $15K modified Versa platform, the rest of the $ is going to the battery pack...

Not to the Fairfax County, Virginia Tax Authority: the LEAF is taxed at its MSRP, so if it costs as much as a BMW, it's taxed as much as a BMW... unless I can get them to change that.

As for DST: when you have charging timers that are based on TOU meters and your Smart Meter knows what time it is since it has to for the TOU, you should damn well expect your vehicle with charge timers to do so as well! Cellular, GPS, whatever, X.25, whatever: just get it right! Keep the dash clock manual, but have the console/navigation/cellular application synced with the times change. That, IMHO, is not too much to ask, especially when you jack up the price $1900 for Mitch and I because we couldn't order a 2011!

 

[mitch672]

Timehorse, just checked your website, I see you've had the Leaf for a week, nice.
At last Fridays "Revenge" opening 6:45PM showing in Cambridge, MA, there was a Q&A afterwards, one of the panelists has a Leaf, he's had it since March, transported over from CA, so I supposed we could have had 2011's, but by the time you travel out there, arrange transportation, we probably would have paid the 2012 price anyway, for a 2011, and not had the cold weather package or the quick charge port,

Anyway, glad to see you have your Leaf, mines still "January 2012"

 

[scottf200]

Wow, I can only hope that was the reason ... of course that'd be dumb too because how often do you do the charging programming times (assuming that is what you are talking about). Rarely. I have twice in 8 months. I think when you click it it does say Time Setting, tho. Two letters are not enough IMHO for anything.

I find I'm tweaking the first charge timer on my LEAF every few days so that I can make sure I have 80% by 5am. The problem with the current LEAF design is that you can't set an end time and calculate backwards to figure out the start automatically, no doubt partly because the estimates for 240V charging are typically off by 10 minutes for every hour (the charging is faster).

Perhaps they will enhance that in the future. The simpliest thing that I see other *EVs do is let you set a "departure time" and it looks at your off/mid/peak settings to make sure you can leave by that time. My neighbor does that. She's not technical or a geek just one of the masses. She charges on 120v and tells the car she wants to leave by 6am. She plugs in when she gets home from work and the car charges when it needs to. I guess one time a year it would be be a problem if she really left at 6am vs 6:30.

 

[planet4ever]

Yes, I was surprised when the console clock didn't reset automatically, even more surprised when I went into the settings and remembered that I had told it (I thought) that it should automatically adjust for DST. But with a bit more thought, and reading between the lines, I realized it was interpreting my DST option as meaning it should always adjust an hour from the time zone I had selected. No biggie, really, just flip the switch twice a year.

Now the dash clock ... that's another matter. This is the time of year when we "fall back", so I needed to subtract one from the hour. But the adjustment only goes forward, so I had to go all the way around. It's even worse for me, because (like many) my clock runs two minutes a month fast. So after cycling the hour the long way I cycled the minute all the way around. They really, really, need to have a minus adjustment on the dash clock. Of course, even better would be to drive it as a slave of the console clock, but that would require some extra electronics.

Ray