Decision I have to make on range

[billvon]

Most of our driving on a daily basis is <10 miles. My commute is ~5 miles but I usually bike, so our Leaf would be used mainly by my wife for her work/shopping. The problem is that 90% of her driving is to a local drop zone that's 66 miles away. She drives it often enough that it represents 95% of our total miles.

If the Leaf can handle that trip we'll probably go through with buying one. It will also involve getting a charge point installed at the DZ, but I can get that done. If the Leaf can't make it 66 miles reliably, it may make a lot more sense to do the PHEV conversion on our Prius to cover our local driving and improve gas mileage on the 66 mile trips.

The route is from Mira Mesa, CA to Perris Valley, CA.

3 miles secondary roads at start - speed limits 25 to 50mph
60 miles freeway - speed limit 70 (average speeds around 75) (probably unsafe below 65)
3 miles secondary roads at finish - speed limits 40 to 50mph

Elevation gain 1000 feet total
Moderately hilly; two ~1000 foot climb/descents along the way

I assume if it can make it there, it can make it back at full charge, since there will be 1000 feet of elevation loss.

Anyone have any thoughts/guesses on this?

 

[evnow]

60 miles freeway - speed limit 70 (average speeds around 75) (probably unsafe below 65)

I think this would be the basic challenge. How many lanes are there ? I'm surprised you say unsafe below 65 ...

 

[Nubo]

In Google Maps, getting directions between 2 points, you can choose an option "avoid highways" This will show you alternate roads. Often, the road that the Interstate "replaced" remains alongside nearby. On your route, Old Hwy 395 parallels I-15 for a good portion of the trip and may be a viable alternative for a less hurried drive. In fact, once you hit Escondido, you may be able to take secondary highways all the way to your destination without incurring much of a distance penalty at all.

 

[evnow]

Often, the road that the Interstate "replaced" remains alongside nearby. On your route, Old Hwy 395 parallels I-15 for a good portion of the trip and may be a viable alternative for a less hurried drive.

Good point.

 

[adric22]

Personally.. I would hate to plan trips in my EV knowing that I wouldn't have enough battery capacity to make the round trip. I would hate to have to depend on getting a charge somewhere before returning home. I suppose if I were visiting family 80 miles away or something and I knew I was going to be there for a long time, I guess that would be okay.

I personally plan to keep most of my trips in the Leaf at or below 30 miles distance from my home. It is pretty rare I ever drive that far anyway, but I doubt I'd go further than that without taking the other car.

 

[Bicster]

If I had to make longer trips on a regular basis, I'd be waiting for the 2012 model at the very least... 6.6kW level 2 charging will make a huge difference in those situations.

 

[LEAFer]

Anyone considering a "boycott" until Nissan agrees to delivers or (cheaply) upgrade the initial models with 6.6kW ?

 

[Dav]

Since you ask:

Anyone considering a "boycott" until Nissan agrees to delivers or (cheaply) upgrade the initial models with 6.6kW ?

No.

 

[evnow]

Anyone considering a "boycott" until Nissan agrees to delivers or (cheaply) upgrade the initial models with 6.6kW ?

No. I actually think it is low priority for me - it really doesn't matter whether the full charge takes 4 or 8 hours.

We will have 200 mile battery in the next version of Leaf. That is a lot more important.

I'd suggest anyone not sure of V1 to lease - like I plan to.

 

[Bicster]

I disagree about leasing. With a lease, you are stuck with the car for the term of the lease. If the range doesn't work out, or you have other issues with the car, too bad.

If you buy the car, you can sell it or trade it in without worrying about the lease. If the cars are still scarce it won't be hard to unload.

I suppose the same would be true of a lease (you could sell it) but you'd be stuck paying all that interest...

 

[evnow]

I disagree about leasing. With a lease, you are stuck with the car for the term of the lease. If the range doesn't work out, or you have other issues with the car, too bad.

If you buy the car, you can sell it or trade it in without worrying about the lease. If the cars are still scarce it won't be hard to unload.

I suppose the same would be true of a lease (you could sell it) but you'd be stuck paying all that interest...

I guess that is a bit of risk balancing - what you are saying is buying makes short term risk more manageable, I'm saying leasing makes medium/long term risk more manageable.

 

[Bicster]

I guess that is a bit of risk balancing - what you are saying is buying makes short term risk more manageable, I'm saying leasing makes medium/long term risk more manageable.

More or less. I haven't ruled out leasing completely, but I doubt I'll lease. Most people I know who have leased cars have vowed to never lease again. Leasing companies love to nickel and dime folks when the lease is up. Scratches, dents, fabric stains, excess miles, etc.: all of that will cost you.

The Leaf does have several compelling reasons for leasing: the tax credit becomes an instant rebate, and you're guaranteed a residual value... which is something, because nobody can predict what kind of residual values these cars will have. If it turns out to be much higher than the residual predicted on the lease, you could even buy the car at the end of the lease, resell it, and pocket the difference.

Sadly I live in a state where you pay sales tax on the full amount of a lease, not just the depreciation... And that tax isn't deductible from federal income tax, whereas the sales tax on a purchase might be.

Bottom line, you should lease if you're concerned about long term risk or the federal tax credit burden. If you're concerned about range, leasing may be a really bad choice.

 

[billvon]

I think this would be the basic challenge. How many lanes are there? I'm surprised you say unsafe below 65 ...

3-4 lanes, depending on location. For me, being 10mph below the average speed is about my limit on safety, just for rear-end collision avoidance.

Someone else had a good point on secondary roads. I've actually done this (to try to maximize mileage in a Honda Civic Hybrid; got 70mpg!) but it takes almost twice the time. And realistically if my wife is presented with the option of a 2 hour round trip in the Prius or an almost 4 hour round trip in the Leaf, she's going to go with the Prius (which is why I'm considering the PHEV over the Leaf.)

It would be interesting to see a head to head comparison to a reference car of similar size; MPG vs Wh/mi at various speeds, various driving schedules and/or various round trips in target markets.

 

[jkirkebo]

We will have 200 mile battery in the next version of Leaf.

This is the first I have heard of a 200 mile version, very encouraging. It would be nice to have a back-up choice if the Tesla Model S falls through. Any time-line for this version ? I need to replace my VW Touran before 2016 at the latest.

An AWD option would also be nice

 

[evnow]

This is the first I have heard of a 200 mile version, very encouraging. It would be nice to have a back-up choice if the Tesla Model S falls through. Any time-line for this version ? I need to replace my VW Touran before 2016 at the latest.

I've seen 2013 and 2015. I think Nissan would like to have it as the December Leaf leases are coming off lease.

Model S would be a good choice - but they will give 160 miles for double the price ...

 

[DeaneG]

For me, being 10mph below the average speed is about my limit on safety, just for rear-end collision avoidance..

Bummer to drive with tail between legs for the sake of a car!

 

[jkirkebo]

This is the first I have heard of a 200 mile version, very encouraging. It would be nice to have a back-up choice if the Tesla Model S falls through. Any time-line for this version ? I need to replace my VW Touran before 2016 at the latest.

I've seen 2003 and 2005. I think Nissan would like to have it as the December Leaf leases are coming off lease.

Model S would be a good choice - but they will give 160 miles for double the price ...

I think you mean 2013 and 2015 ?

Anyway, if I go for the Model S it will be the 300 mile version for sure, preferably with the AWD option as we have real winters here and I'm leery about RWD on ice and snow.

 

[evnow]

I think you mean 2013 and 2015 ?

Anyway, if I go for the Model S it will be the 300 mile version for sure, preferably with the AWD option as we have real winters here and I'm leery about RWD on ice and snow.

Yes, changed to 2013/15.

I figure 300 mile S will be about $70K, if not more. I find it difficult to justify that kind of money for a car

 

[mwalsh]

I figure 300 mile S will be about $70K, if not more. I find it difficult to justify that kind of money for a car

Yeah, a better solution for me would be to pay the cost for my employer to put in a EVSE for me. Or even buy a second Leaf, using one to get to work and the other to get home (if I could only charge at work on 120v and had to leave car one on charge for 16 hours).

 

[jkirkebo]

I think you mean 2013 and 2015 ?

Anyway, if I go for the Model S it will be the 300 mile version for sure, preferably with the AWD option as we have real winters here and I'm leery about RWD on ice and snow.

Yes, changed to 2013/15.

I figure 300 mile S will be about $70K, if not more. I find it difficult to justify that kind of money for a car

Cars are very expensive here, even my VW Touran 2.0TDI cost $70K new. EVs are much cheaper because they're not taxed at all. If Tesla can deliver the european 300 mile Model S AWD for $90K or less I'm very probably getting one. A competing gasoline model like the BMW 535i costs twice that.