Ecotality or LA DWP?

[DTB]

Hello everybody. I have been lurking for a long time but this is my first post.
I was approved for a free charger a long time ago through Ecotality. The approval was automatic based on my questionnaire responses without requiring a home inspection. My car is coming next week and I finally got a call yesterday from somebody to schedule the install. He is now telling me that since my panel is not on the same wall as the garage (it's across the house) that I should expect to pay at least $500 out of pocket. He said that I won't know the exact cost until the morning when the guys show up to do the install they will tell me how much it will be. I've read about the reasons for the high labor costs but my panel is new and has plenty of space so despite having to run some conduit I think I have a pretty simple install and I don't see $1,700 worth of work? Plus the fact that they won't give me a price until the morning they show up to do the work makes me a bit uncomfortable. Has anyone else had this experience with their Ecotality install? I am in L.A. (San Fernando Valley), is all the work done by the same electricians?
I am now wondering if I would be better off using the new LA DWP program? I haven't seen any details yet but if I can buy the unit and use my own electrician I probably would keep the total cost under the $2k max. Or does DWP require you to use only their participating (expensive) electricians too?

 

[thankyouOB]

DWP program requires you to install a second meter for the EV circuit. So add that excess cost to any estimate. I do not believe they will do it for you.

I did the EVP program and got a Blink, and paid about $400 extra as I needed (subpanel) to add panel space and a 55-foot run for the conduit.
There is no reason they cannot give you an install price ahead of time and that was standard procedure when they did my assessment via Sunwest Electric and the EVP project. When I had questions about the install, they discussed them with me and then referred further issues about the cost to EVP. I was satisfied after the discussion that the excess costs were justified.


Your issue my have to do with the hurry-up aspect of your install. But it still doesn't jibe.
I was given an estimate and told to sign it ahead of time, agreeing to pay the excess at time of install. If I didn't agree they would not do the install.

I found that deal worked well. I will get the 30% federal credit on the $400.
I would question ECoT on the issue of no estimate. That doesn't sound right, to me.

Don't forget, with EcoT you get the QC for free, too.

 

[syntaxerror]

Why not do both? Get the EVP to install a blink and get the DC port then go buy another (reliable) L2 EVSE with the DWP money?

 

[thankyouOB]

Why not do both? Get the EVP to install a blink and get the DC port then go buy another (reliable) L2 EVSE with the DWP money?

why would you want two chargers at your house. (dwp and Evp only cover home installs.)

 

[Kataphn]

I am getting the Blink through the EV project with no additional cost charged for our simple install. We are going to think about putting in the 2nd meter using the DWP rebate program at some point once we see how much it will be to install the second meter and how it pencils out monthly given the automatic $8.00 per month service charge for the 2nd meter. If the DWP rebate program will pay for the installation of the 2nd meter, it might be worth it for us to do it.

 

[thankyouOB]

I am getting the Blink through the EV project with no additional cost charged for our simple install. We are going to think about putting in the 2nd meter using the DWP rebate program at some point once we see how much it will be to install the second meter and how it pencils out monthly given the automatic $8.00 per month service charge for the 2nd meter. If the DWP rebate program will pay for the installation of the 2nd meter, it might be worth it for us to do it.

why would you go into the DWP rebate program, if you dont have any install cost to rebate? I dont get that.

I understand that they have a program where they will give you 2.5-cent discount on 500kWh or power a month.
You do not need the second meter to get that. I thought it was a flat 2.5 cents for 500kWh or you could opt for 2.5 cents on all the power you use to charge your car--and that is why you would add the second meter.

 

[DTB]

Thanks for the feeback. I will feel better once I get past the EcoT install. Hopefully the guy was just giving me worst case scenario so I wouldn't be surprised if the installers ask me for money out of pocket. Doesn't seem like anybody else has been taken for a ride with them so we will see what happens.
I thought about a last minute change to DWP since they also cover $2k towards equipment and install (same as EcoT) but I don't want the 2nd meter. I doubt I will use the entire block of 500kw for the car, so that means discounted AC for me! I think the 2nd meter only pays off if you charge a lot, unless they are going to provide deeper discounts in the future.

 

[Kataphn]

Thanks for the feeback. I will feel better once I get past the EcoT install. Hopefully the guy was just giving me worst case scenario so I wouldn't be surprised if the installers ask me for money out of pocket. Doesn't seem like anybody else has been taken for a ride with them so we will see what happens.
I thought about a last minute change to DWP since they also cover $2k towards equipment and install (same as EcoT) but I don't want the 2nd meter. I doubt I will use the entire block of 500kw for the car, so that means discounted AC for me! I think the 2nd meter only pays off if you charge a lot, unless they are going to provide deeper discounts in the future.

There is no block of energy discount unless you go on whole house TOU. We opted not to do that.

 

[thankyouOB]

Thanks for the feeback. I will feel better once I get past the EcoT install. Hopefully the guy was just giving me worst case scenario so I wouldn't be surprised if the installers ask me for money out of pocket. Doesn't seem like anybody else has been taken for a ride with them so we will see what happens.
I thought about a last minute change to DWP since they also cover $2k towards equipment and install (same as EcoT) but I don't want the 2nd meter. I doubt I will use the entire block of 500kw for the car, so that means discounted AC for me! I think the 2nd meter only pays off if you charge a lot, unless they are going to provide deeper discounts in the future.

I wonder if any of the savants here can tell me what is the approximate mileage for 500kWh?
I know it varies. I was thinking about 3.5 miles per kWh so the 500 kWh discount would cover 1250 miles a month.

anyone?

And we have solar and the TOU meter and it supplies more than what we use. It makes no sense to get the second meter because the overage cant be used to pay for the EV power--which is a separate meter and separate account.
DWP is talking about NOT charging a second $8 for the second TOU, but that would require a rate change.
regardless, there is no current talk at DWP about allowing the PV/house TOU meter to offset the EV meter.

 

[Jimmydreams]

I wonder if any of the savants here can tell me what is the approximate mileage for 500kWh?
I know it varies. I was thinking about 3.5 miles per kWh so the 500 kWh discount would cover 1250 miles a month.

I'm not a savant, but I'm getting about 3.6mi/kW at 60-65mph highway speeds in San Diego. Almost no climate control, fairly hilly terrain. YMMV (literally).

 

[thankyouOB]

thanks.
ladwp is giving us 2.5 cents off on 500kWh a month for having an EV.
so I will be getting a discount of about $12.50 just for having an EV.

 

[DTB]

Here is the outcome of my situation.
Ecotality came out yesterday and did my install. Not an ideal install since the panel is at the back of the house and the garage is in the front. They ran conduit along the exterior of the house, about 75 feet total. The panel is new and had room so no hassles there. Took them probably 3 hours total. Sounds like Ecotality covers about 4 hours of labor and my gut feeling is that they could have gone through the attic and still been finished within that timeframe.
LA DWP has published more details now on their program. They let you use your own electrician and buy whatever EVSE you want and will cover all expenses up to $2k. Subtracting the EVSE cost should leave about $1,300 towards labor which will go a long way using your own local electrician. Overall I think it is a better program, the only drawback is they require a second meter.

 

[thankyouOB]

I think the second meter is a killer for the discount on the install. Absolutely for sure, if you have solar, as you CANNOT use the solar production to offset the EV second meter, nor can you use the solar bank from your TOU to pay the bills. Mine has $300+ in it.

It does work if you cant get into EVP.

DWP is considering dropping the second $8 service charge, which makes the math better, but if they dont, it is $96 worse every year.

The whole-house TOU discount is 500 kWh, which is a savings of $12.50 a month on all your base billing. And that makes it even better.

 

[Deleted member 770]

I just got a call from SunWest (the installer for Ecotality in the LA area) saying that they're postponing my Blink EVSE installation (originally scheduled for next Monday) because LADWP just changed their rules and are going to force all EV Project installations to install a second meter!

Boo on LADWP:

• They're pushing off my installation.
• We spent $$$$ on a very clean panel upgrade and solar inverter installation to avoid any exposed conduit (and just restuccoed the entire house). This will force conduit to show (and may require ripping open stucco).
• Based on the comments of others, we may get charged additional for having a non-optional meter.
• It won't do me any good, as I have solar panels and won't be using TOU metering.
• I'll have THREE meters (a smart one, a solar one and an EV one). Not smart, stupid.

First my car gets pushed back from April to July because Nissan won't take misallocated cars away from "lucky duck line jumpers" and now this. Sigh. What ELSE can go wrong? :x

 

[DrRocket]

I already have solar power and TOU for the whole house.

I had the LADWP guy out last week only one day after applying on line for the 2.5 cent lower rate for using an EV. He suggested forgetting about the free Ecotality/LADWP program since LADWP will require all kinds of upgrades and meters and requirements--he thought close to $4000 with the Blink EVSE. I missed the boat by a few weeks. Had I moved forward with Ecotality (they were the slow ones) before the L.A. Mayor's announcement, Ecotality had a reasonable financial incentive for consumers.

Plus the $8 per month charge on the 2nd TOU meter (for me). I estimate the Leaf will only use about 250 kwh per month for my driving, so I will be losing money each month. 2.5 cents x 250 less $8. Plus the unit would be a Blink (only 32 percent working flawlessly according to a recent poll on this website). Also, way too complicated a unit and too many things that could have gone wrong, already have gone wrong. See the Blink links on this website.

So I just had LADWP give me the 2.5 cent discount on the first 500 kwh which means the discount will apply to home usage as well. I'll save $12.50 per month with no additional TOU meter costs.

I called the electrician to install 30 AMP 240 volt service to the garage with a L6-20 receptacle. I'll be sending my EVSE L1 to Phil/Ingineer for the upgrade for $239. That is the cheapest way to go.

One day, if wall based EVSE's drop in price to about $300, I'll get one for convenience.

 

[hvera]

I just got a call from SunWest (the installer for Ecotality in the LA area) saying that they're postponing my Blink EVSE installation (originally scheduled for next Monday) because LADWP just changed their rules and are going to force all EV Project installations to install a second meter!

Boo on LADWP:

First my car gets pushed back from April to July because Nissan won't take misallocated cars away from "lucky duck line jumpers" and now this. Sigh. What ELSE can go wrong? :x

You should read this thread:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3750

It looks like it is Ecotality not LADWP.

 

[TomT]

I have been informed by more than one person involved with the LADWP program that the program will only pay for the second meter install if it is done at the same time as the EVSE install. You can't do it after the fact and file for a rebate for the meter. I inquired about this since my EV Project install was done prior to the LADWP program and I wanted to investigate the possibility of installing a second meter after the fact using the LADWP rebate.

I am getting the Blink through the EV project with no additional cost charged for our simple install. We are going to think about putting in the 2nd meter using the DWP rebate program at some point once we see how much it will be to install the second meter and how it pencils out monthly given the automatic $8.00 per month service charge for the 2nd meter. If the DWP rebate program will pay for the installation of the 2nd meter, it might be worth it for us to do it.

 

[evnow]

Plus the unit would be a Blink (only 32 percent working flawlessly according to a recent poll on this website). Also, way too complicated a unit and too many things that could have gone wrong, already have gone wrong. See the Blink links on this website.

After the latest firmware upgrade, few of us are having any problems. Blink tells you how much kwh you use and that is very useful (and you get that number off of your intranet).

 

[thankyouOB]

Bink working flawlessly.
hardwired
no wifi for me, ethernet cord
using leaf timer.

has good stats.
support tells me next software upgrade 1.6 will correct the clock imbalance between unit and intranet.

 

[TomT]

Same here. I have yet to have a problem with my Blink, and I'm on WiFi (albeit with a very strong signal)...

Bink working flawlessly.
hardwired
no wifi for me, ethernet cord
using leaf timer.