EV sales crashing - maybe not.

[Chad E. Mo]

Sales have been generally good, despite the media blather about cratering sales.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2024/06/21/someone-forgot-to-tell-ford-ev-sales-were-slowing/

 

[marshallinwash]

Well Tesla makes such of a large portion of EV sales. As such, they lost the tax credit on most of model 3 line-up, and sales are down significantly. So that's part of the issue.

Anyhow, the media doesn't usually provide a balanced story. So depending on who is telling the story, it's all good or all bad.

 

[Toby]

Are EV sales seasonal?

 

[kitra]

We live in the Portland, Oregon vicinity and these Greenies love EV's and frown upon those who drive ICE vehicles. We find it shocking how EV's seem to be falling out of popularity here. Lots of Dealers have an abundance of new and used EV's. We have owned 2 LEAF's, a 2103 and a 2020. The 2013 was enjoyable because few had an EV and all charging was free and available. When we got the 2020, Chargers were always busy (it seemed) or they were broken. Instead of "Free Charging", costs were as high as $.56 a KW. We enjoyed the EV's but were always having charging and range issues. The biggest deturrent was insurance costs. Our 2020 was $115 a month to insure. We sold the LEAF and now I drive a huge Car. A 1998 Oldsmobile Aurora 4.0 V8. Paid $1900 for the Car, $350 in repairs, and $30 a month to insure. I only drive it maybe 400 miles a month. We also have a 2002 SAAB with 200K miles on it. It's inexpensive to insure also and gets 17 MPG around town and 27 - 29 on the highway. My Neighbor has a new MachE performance model he lets his 16 year old Daughter drive to and from School. He pays $800 a month car payment and $250 a month insurance. And they only drive it about 5,000 miles a year. Those are expensive miles. We think most EV Owners are wealthy. The Neighbor and his Wife are Doctors. Money is no object to them. We would someday like to try another EV but right now, the battery technology isn't good enough. If it is perfected and the actual range is 600 miles, that would replace our ICE vehicles. There have been some good deals here on used and new EV's.

 

[cornbinder89]

you seam happy when some else is paying you way, but think it is too expensive when you pick up the bill! My Leaf cost me 1/2 what my Camry 4 banger does to do the same trips to town.
The key to any tool is to make sure it is a good fit for the job.
If you don't have the ability to charge at home, then you have to look carefully at what it will cost to charge elsewhere.
If it is all about money, then make your choice based on that. However also include what it needs in Maintenace and repairs. No oil changes, no adding oil, brakes last longer all on an electric.
I like being able to "fuel" at home but don't expect to "fuel for free" anywhere.

 

[Stanton]

We would someday like to try another EV but right now, the battery technology isn't good enough. If it is perfected and the actual range is 600 miles, that would replace our ICE vehicles.

I'm curious: do your ICE vehicles have a 600 mile range (on 1 tank of gas)? I'm guessing not.
I don't understand how/why people think this way...especially when you don't even drive that much in a month!

 

[Dooglas]

We would someday like to try another EV but right now, the battery technology isn't good enough. If it is perfected and the actual range is 600 miles, that would replace our ICE vehicles. There have been some good deals here on used and new EV's.

As you note, you presently own (and pay the maintenance and fuel costs of) 2 vehicles. Clearly you don't need a 600 mile range on both of them. For that matter, how often do you need a 600 mile range on one of them? Sounds like you are the perfect candidate for 1 EV which you would charge at home and drive primarily in the metropolitan area. Charging at home (in the Portland metro area, as I do as well) is extremely cost effective and is very compatible with the capabilities and technology of the current LEAF 40 and 62/60 kwh batteries. A quick trip out to Platt Auto would show you that these vehicles (and others) are currently a good buy in low mileage used condition. Is that for you? I don't know (and it is really your call) but it seems like you have written off EVs for the wrong reasons.

 

[marshallinwash]

I'm curious: do your ICE vehicles have a 600 mile range (on 1 tank of gas)? I'm guessing not.
I don't understand how/why people think this way...especially when you don't even drive that munch in a month!

kita is looking for anything that can be used to throw mud, even if it's a bit silly.

 

[Burt]

I'm curious: do your ICE vehicles have a 600 mile range (on 1 tank of gas)? I'm guessing not.
I don't understand how/why people think this way...especially when you don't even drive that much in a month!

I think the long range need is to offset the long charging time. Yes my current car goes nearly 600 miles on a tank and yes we do sometimes drive a thousand miles in a day.

Having said that I believe that EVs should be marketed as fulfilling a niche for people with two cars, EV for urban and ICE for long trips. Problem is most couples have his and her vehicles.

 

[marshallinwash]

In fifty years of driving, I've never driven a thousand miles in one day, and only one time have I driven 789 miles in one day with two drivers driving. Clearly I'm not a road warrior.


I would be more worried about the reliability of the charging network then charging time, especially since the cables seem to under attack from the cable zombies. Charging time is a non-issue to me.

Our two vehicles are not for the exclusive usage of one or the other. So a non-issue to me.

 

[MikeinPA]

I'm curious: do your ICE vehicles have a 600 mile range (on 1 tank of gas)? I'm guessing not.
I don't understand how/why people think this way...especially when you don't even drive that much in a month!

Olds Aurora has a twenty gallon tank and gets 23 mpg on the high way. Nope.

 

[KCotton]

We live in the Portland, Oregon vicinity and these Greenies love EV's and frown upon those who drive ICE vehicles. We find it shocking how EV's seem to be falling out of popularity here. Lots of Dealers have an abundance of new and used EV's. We have owned 2 LEAF's, a 2103 and a 2020. The 2013 was enjoyable because few had an EV and all charging was free and available. When we got the 2020, Chargers were always busy (it seemed) or they were broken. Instead of "Free Charging", costs were as high as $.56 a KW. We enjoyed the EV's but were always having charging and range issues. The biggest deturrent was insurance costs. Our 2020 was $115 a month to insure. We sold the LEAF and now I drive a huge Car. A 1998 Oldsmobile Aurora 4.0 V8. Paid $1900 for the Car, $350 in repairs, and $30 a month to insure. I only drive it maybe 400 miles a month. We also have a 2002 SAAB with 200K miles on it. It's inexpensive to insure also and gets 17 MPG around town and 27 - 29 on the highway. My Neighbor has a new MachE performance model he lets his 16 year old Daughter drive to and from School. He pays $800 a month car payment and $250 a month insurance. And they only drive it about 5,000 miles a year. Those are expensive miles. We think most EV Owners are wealthy. The Neighbor and his Wife are Doctors. Money is no object to them. We would someday like to try another EV but right now, the battery technology isn't good enough. If it is perfected and the actual range is 600 miles, that would replace our ICE vehicles. There have been some good deals here on used and new EV's.

I'm not sure why you feel like you need 600 miles of range. Even driving at highway speeds (75 mph) on the interstate, that is eight hours of driving. I don't know about you, but I am ready for a break after three or four hours. I find that charging stops make for nice breaks in trips. According to a recent report I read, most people travel 50 miles or less a day for the majority of the time. You could recover that much charge overnight, charging from a 110v outlet at home. If you are only driving your daily commuter only 400 miles in a month, why do you need a car with 600 miles of range?

 

[Stanton]

Having said that I believe that EVs should be marketed as fulfilling a niche for people with two cars, EV for urban and ICE for long trips. Problem is most couples have his and her vehicles.

This is what I do...and what I tell people when they ask me about EVs.
That doesn't mean that someday it may change (as battery tech improves), but in general I don't see EVs as a "road trip" vehicle yet...but they are great for "around town".

 

[rrip]

My wife and I have two cars and live in the city. One is a 2012 Leaf and the other a Ford Explorer. We do not have assigned His/Her cars; we simply take whatever car makes the most sense for the trip, which is usually the Leaf, even though it only achieves about 40 miles per charge. If we did decide to both have EV's, we would RENT an ICE vehicle for road trips outside the city. Road trips are difficult enough without the added complexity of tracking charge and charging stations.

 

[cornbinder89]

My wife and I have two cars and live in the city. One is a 2012 Leaf and the other a Ford Explorer. We do not have assigned His/Her cars; we simply take whatever car makes the most sense for the trip, which is usually the Leaf, even though it only achieves about 40 miles per charge. If we did decide to both have EV's, we would RENT an ICE vehicle for road trips outside the city. Road trips are difficult enough without the added complexity of tracking charge and charging stations.

exactly, focus on the 98+% that the electric is an excellent fit, and rent something for the 2% that it isn't. Far better than running something 98% it is a poor fit for the 2% of the time it makes one vehicle able to do everything!
I will likely always have a ICE vehicle in my "stable" because I have antiques, that I enjoy driving for a few miles a year. I'd still rent for the one long trip, taking a 1942 that distance (although I have in the past) is not a good economic choice.

 

[Burt]

. If we did decide to both have EV's, we would RENT an ICE vehicle for road trips outside the city. Road trips are difficult enough without the added complexity of tracking charge and charging stations.

That works today but not when more people have EVs and all want to travel the holidays. I’ve had bad experiences renting where the car they offer is a poor substitute for what I reserved. There are times when no cars are available.

 

[kitra]

None of my Cars go 600 miles. But my SAAB will go 520 miles on a tank. It takes about 5 - 10 minutes to fill it up. We drive across the Country once or twice a year. Typically drive between 545 and 810 miles a day. It wouldn't work using an EV. We used to Rent a Chrysler 300 at Budget for under $300 for 16 days. But that was in 2020 and before. Now it would cost around $800+ to rent a vehicle and it would be a small car not big enough for the luggage. I guess were are one of the 46% that wouldn't buy another EV and are going back to an ICE Vehicle. (in today's paper). I can buy my Neighbor's 2016 Tesla Model "S" with 46K miles for cheap. Love his Car but he's has several major issues with it and now there is no warranty left. Thinking about it.

We were stranded several times due to the inability to charge the EV. And when we fast-charged in Chehalis Washington, it fried the LEAF's battery. It was 150Kw Charger I believe? The Battery was never the same after that single charge. Never have had an issue buying gasoline. My ICE Vehicles look good on paper. Insurance is cheap, upkeep is cheap. I do my own maintenance. Carry no collision. When we had the LEAF, our Insurance alone was the highest of any of our Cars. Yes, I loved the LEAF but did not like the inconvenience. Plus Oregon raised the Electricity rates a lot. I believe earlier this year it was an 18 - 20% increase with plans to raise the rates again later this year and again next year.

I have a hard time understanding People's reasoning. I'm sure some don't understand mine. A good friend of ours had a 2019 Toyota Camry, free and clear. She wanted better mileage and a bit more space so bought a new 2024 Toyota RAV4 Prime? She paid $46,000+ for it. I don't see the savings. Yes, She gets great gas mileage but has high insurance and an $810 a month payment. $810 a month would buy a lot of Gas. I make a Car payment every month into a high yield Account. Never made Car payments for a Car but make one to save. Would rather drive something that I won't worry about someone vandalizing or running into. My $.02.

 

[Bombastinator2]

We live in the Portland, Oregon vicinity and these Greenies love EV's and frown upon those who drive ICE vehicles. We find it shocking how EV's seem to be falling out of popularity here. Lots of Dealers have an abundance of new and used EV's. We have owned 2 LEAF's, a 2103 and a 2020. The 2013 was enjoyable because few had an EV and all charging was free and available. When we got the 2020, Chargers were always busy (it seemed) or they were broken. Instead of "Free Charging", costs were as high as $.56 a KW. We enjoyed the EV's but were always having charging and range issues. The biggest deturrent was insurance costs. Our 2020 was $115 a month to insure. We sold the LEAF and now I drive a huge Car. A 1998 Oldsmobile Aurora 4.0 V8. Paid $1900 for the Car, $350 in repairs, and $30 a month to insure. I only drive it maybe 400 miles a month. We also have a 2002 SAAB with 200K miles on it. It's inexpensive to insure also and gets 17 MPG around town and 27 - 29 on the highway. My Neighbor has a new MachE performance model he lets his 16 year old Daughter drive to and from School. He pays $800 a month car payment and $250 a month insurance. And they only drive it about 5,000 miles a year. Those are expensive miles. We think most EV Owners are wealthy. The Neighbor and his Wife are Doctors. Money is no object to them. We would someday like to try another EV but right now, the battery technology isn't good enough. If it is perfected and the actual range is 600 miles, that would replace our ICE vehicles. There have been some good deals here on used and new EV's.

Weird because my main motivation was economic. “Gas” is cheaper. Right now one needs one car to be at least a hybrid.