I don't want the brake lights coming on unless I actually apply the friction brakes so I use B mode most of the time. I use e-pedal once in a while if stuck in severe stop and go traffic. Brake lights did not help me in my 2011--they were brightly lit while I was stopped at a traffic light. Unfortunately, the 3/4-ton diesel pickup driver did not bother to stop at the light.
First Impressions of '21 Leaf SV
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user 24513
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Count me with the ones who like tail lights in e-pedal mode- when you slow down that quickly, it is just like using the brake pedal. And, in a Leaf, what diff does it make which way you choose to slow down, even the pedal does not engage friction braking until regen is maxed out.....
I think that any mode that is most like downshifting to a lower gear should NOT have the brake lights come on. With ePedal the car will actually stop, so it's appropriate to have them activate in that.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
GerryAZ said:
In my 2016 which had less regen in B and no E Pedal, twice I was rearended and luckily both times the damage was very minor and hard to see if not looking for it. When I got my 2018, I started out using B mode most of the time with E Pedal being the norm on city streets but found the efficiency was lacking. B mode also had higher regen and the Plus seemed to be a bit more so now I drive in D most of the time shifting to B when anticipating a major slowdown or stop only going to E Pedal at the last possible moment.
All this, especially on the freeway has caused my followers to have a greater following distance frequently and my efficiency has gone up. On the efficiency side, it may be because of the weather as the Pacific Northwest has had a near record dry start to Spring and that continues.
Some impressions after using "Pro Pilot"and other advanced features in my 2 week old SV Plus with tech;
Note - if these needs moving to the Pro Pilot for elderly - feel free - I definitely qualify.
Driver assist:
Taking rather sharp cornering at above speed limits (50 in a 40 mph), I did not feel that PP would correct enough - waited to the last second to manually make the turn. Tried several times with same result. Lane markers where excellent. Somewhat scary!
Seems to keep too close to center stripe on narrow (well marked) lanes - especially with large gravel trucks oncomming! Drifting around the lane very noticeable compared to my actual driving skill (slight nudge to steering to keep straight).
When a well marked right turn lane starts, the PP steered toward the turn lane at a fairly high speed. Luckily, no car turning and had to manually pull back to main lane.
Brake assist and/or intelligent cruise? - a couple of scary incidents. Sudden braking for what is seemingly no reason whatsoever. Has happened a couple of times already. Braking for only a second or so, but fairly hard braking.
The worst incident yet was on a well marked two lane highway, a car in front was making a right turn. As the vehicle slowed, the intelligent cruise slowed me down appropriately. As it turned into the right turn lane, my vehicle continued to slow - even though the vehicle was well out of the straight ahead lane (in it's turn lane). Then, my brakes went very hard - like the turning vehicle was still in my path. By this time I was going very slow with high speed traffic (luckily) still safetly behind me, but approaching rapidly. I floored the accelerator, the car "clunked" and took off quickly. This could have been a serious rear-end if someone was following closely at all.
I've turned off the driver assist, but still use the "driver alert" option (the only two on the menu).
Has anyone had similar issues - or others that affect safe driving?
Note - if these needs moving to the Pro Pilot for elderly - feel free - I definitely qualify.
Driver assist:
Taking rather sharp cornering at above speed limits (50 in a 40 mph), I did not feel that PP would correct enough - waited to the last second to manually make the turn. Tried several times with same result. Lane markers where excellent. Somewhat scary!
Seems to keep too close to center stripe on narrow (well marked) lanes - especially with large gravel trucks oncomming! Drifting around the lane very noticeable compared to my actual driving skill (slight nudge to steering to keep straight).
When a well marked right turn lane starts, the PP steered toward the turn lane at a fairly high speed. Luckily, no car turning and had to manually pull back to main lane.
Brake assist and/or intelligent cruise? - a couple of scary incidents. Sudden braking for what is seemingly no reason whatsoever. Has happened a couple of times already. Braking for only a second or so, but fairly hard braking.
The worst incident yet was on a well marked two lane highway, a car in front was making a right turn. As the vehicle slowed, the intelligent cruise slowed me down appropriately. As it turned into the right turn lane, my vehicle continued to slow - even though the vehicle was well out of the straight ahead lane (in it's turn lane). Then, my brakes went very hard - like the turning vehicle was still in my path. By this time I was going very slow with high speed traffic (luckily) still safetly behind me, but approaching rapidly. I floored the accelerator, the car "clunked" and took off quickly. This could have been a serious rear-end if someone was following closely at all.
I've turned off the driver assist, but still use the "driver alert" option (the only two on the menu).
Has anyone had similar issues - or others that affect safe driving?
knightmb
Well-known member
I know that some curves, PP won't do, I think I read something below a 60 degree turn and it will shut off. It works best on fairly non-curvy roads. Works fine for the Interstate, but local driving around some twisty turns, I wouldn't trust it if I didn't know the road already and how it worked in the past. I noticed the same thing, seems to keep me to close to the center line, but then I noticed that the way I drive, I tend to ride the side line and just not use to staying in the center of the lane. I think it is a matter of perspective and how the road lines are marked. If the lane is wide, it centers well, if the lane is narrow, it appears to ride close to the center, but I suspect because that is probably the "center" of the narrow lane that most of us don't notice because we don't drive looking down at the road, but we look ahead when we drive.Marktm said:
I do know why this happens, PP follows the car ahead even around turns (it doesn't just look straight ahead), so if a car is "turning", PP doesn't know if that car is going to stop or not, so it takes the cautious route of just almost stopping. PP won't swing around any car it follows from the camera, it's not that advanced of a driving system yet. But... if the turning car gets far enough out of view of PP, then I've seen it speed up past the car. The easiest way to tell what PP is doing is to turn on the "Cruise Screen" that shows when PP can see a car ahead of not or if it is in Drive Assist mode. Once you do that, you'll see how PP behaves with cars in front, when it can't or can see cars, is it following the car ahead of you, etc.
It's certainly a learning curve, especially when trying to "trust" the car to do the right thing. So far, knowing it's quirks, I can work with it, use it quite a bit knowing what limitations it has and knowing to take control when a situation is coming up that I know it will choke on, such as a car deciding to just make a sudden right turn out of the blue.
For real fun, trying using driver assist and keep your hands off the wheel too long beyond the safety time, the car pulls over to the side of the road and honks at you :mrgreen:
knightmb
Well-known member
To add to this, all those videos of people sitting in the back of a Tesla while it drives, you could technically do the same thing with PP and a good enough road (good markings, fairly straight, light traffic, low speeds) to make a quick video, but we all know how stupid that would be, so don't do it! :roll:
knightmb said:
In this case, the turn lane and the straight through lane were both clearly marked (recently re-tarred road). The car that was turning was clearly out of the straight through lane. It was a totally straight section of road also. The PP applied serious braking when the car turning was clearly out of the path of my Leaf as I was about to pass it at a good speed - that is what really surprised me. I wish I had looked at the screen to see if it showed a vehicle, but I was looking at the cars behind me to make sure I did not get rear ended! To me, it was a serious flaw in the software - to suddenly stop in a 70 mph highway with no vehicle in the lane ahead under any circumstance. Note that I was not using steering assist at the time - this was all with the brake assist (at least as I understand it! :? I guess it's possible that steering assist would have recognized the different lanes involved?
Learjet
Well-known member
Marktm said:
You will be ready for it next time...just press the go pedal to override the auto braking.
knightmb
Well-known member
Pro Pilot definitely needs an upgrade on it's logic, maybe Pro Pilot 2 will be better? If I am in multi-lane traffic, PP seems to follow the car ahead of me just fine, safety passing vehicles on both the right and left at the same time. No issues. But...if the car in my lane, changes lanes (and slows down for some reason), PP gets nervous and starts to slow down to match it. :lol:Marktm said:
But... if the car I am following changes lanes and keeps the speed constant (or speeds up) and no other cars are ahead of me, I noticed that the "car" picture disappears and PP sees a clear lane ahead (speeds up or whatever if the following car was driving under my set speed).
Another way to make PP act better is to set the follow distance to 3 cars instead of 1 car for example, that extra distance seems to give it more time to make up it's mind about what it is going to do when cars keep cutting in and out of your lane ahead of you all the time. Oddly enough, PP seems to work better in dynamic, heavy traffic and becomes overly too cautious on simple two way roads with good lines following just one car. :lol:
Now, I don't know if PP is suppose to have "accident avoidance" but twice now I've had PP keep me from getting hit while running. The first time, I tried to change lanes to the right and a car ran up into my blind spot at high speed before I could get over, the Leaf did the beep flash, the steering wheel vibrated and the car lurched back over to the left so I didn't hit the car on my right-back blind spot area. The car fighting me like that was the first time I've ever had that happen.
Second time, PP was going, a truck came up on my back-right (passenger side) area and nearly hit me. PP didn't do anything other than notify me with a beep (before the truck would have hit) so I was able to lurch the Leaf over to the left a little.
Marktm said:
Your experience is similar to mine. I keep testing "Pro Pilot" periodically, but usually disable it by using the "normal" cruise control mode (hold cruise control button until the blue symbol is replaced by a speedometer icon. I think mine worked better with the OEM tires when the car was new, but the tires I have now require a little more steering force to initiate turns so it delays Pro Pilot steering and then Pro Pilot oscillates back and forth. Fortunately, when it brakes excessively for a car slowing in an adjacent lane, it will always disengage the brakes if you firmly step on the accelerator.
GerryAZ said:
I have not tried holding the PP button down to get "normal" cc - will give that a try.
What tires did you replace the original with? The 2021 comes with Michelins -17 inch.
I have Bridgestone DriveGuard run flat tires. They did reduce range somewhat, but the range hit becomes less as the tires age and it is nice to not worry about flat tires. I also went up to 215/55 R17 for slightly better ground clearance (had done the same size increase with last set of tires on 2015--would not recommend if there is any chance you would need to use tire chains). Bridgestone Ecopias are better for low rolling resistance and also have better wet/dry traction than the OEM Michelins in my climate.
GerryAZ said:
Tried holding the PP button down for a few and it did go to "conventional" cruise - thx for the tip as that is the mode I'll be using majority of the time. I'll be testing full PP on the next freeway cruise - I believe it will work well for those conditions.
Triggerhappy007
Well-known member
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I'm not sure why you would want regular cruise control over adaptive cruise control. The adaptive cruise control works really well in the Leaf. I usually use 1 or 2 distance bars. It also works on city streets, you don't only have to use it on the highway. Get some practice using it and you'll love it.Marktm said:
/\ Yup. I planned on using regular Cruise, but after trying it once I just stayed with the ACC.
knightmb
Well-known member
LeftieBiker said:
I did as well. First started using regular Cruise, but one day, got stuck in traffic that was crawling just slow enough not to fully stop. I tried ePedal for about a mile, but once I figured out how long the traffic line was and no other route around it, tried ACC for the first time because I was never technically stopping. To my pleasant surprise, it followed along with all the near stopping and going very well. I just zoned out for half an hour until I finally go through it, ACC made it much easier to deal with, so much less stress. :lol:
I believe adaptive cruise was the cause of the near catastropic rear end on a high speed rural road that tried to stop me in the middle of the highway due to a car turning right in a right turn lane (see previous post). Again, I did not notice if the car was showing on the screen as I was too busy worring about being rear-ended. I did have "steering assist" turned off as it just seems to "wander" too much and stay too close to the center strip for my liking.
I'm assuming that the auto braking due to a car in front was the issue, but admittedly, I'm not that familiar with all the various options and what to use (and not) under various road conditions. I just know that for my usual rural driving, I'm going to continue to use the "conventional cruise" because next time I may have a car following closely and that would have undoubtably resulted in a serious rear end collision as hard as the car auto braked.
Edit add:
I do plan on using the adaptive cruise on the (finished) sections of an interstate that I use frequently. Have not had a change to try it yet. A lot of the road is under construction, so I'll be turning on and off likely, but will be a good "experiment".
I'm assuming that the auto braking due to a car in front was the issue, but admittedly, I'm not that familiar with all the various options and what to use (and not) under various road conditions. I just know that for my usual rural driving, I'm going to continue to use the "conventional cruise" because next time I may have a car following closely and that would have undoubtably resulted in a serious rear end collision as hard as the car auto braked.
Edit add:
I do plan on using the adaptive cruise on the (finished) sections of an interstate that I use frequently. Have not had a change to try it yet. A lot of the road is under construction, so I'll be turning on and off likely, but will be a good "experiment".
In my mind, none of the "next generation" driving aids that attempt to go beyond just providing assistance are reliable enough to be useful outside of highly predictable situations, such as cruising down the highway in light traffic. I will definitely be a late adopter of this technology.
The aids I find personally useful enough to turn on/regularly use include:
- Lane departure alert
- Blind spot alert
- Rear cross-traffic alert
- Parking assist/360 camera
- Auto high beams
- Driver attentiveness
I haven't had any issue with auto braking in our 2019 Leaf+, so I've left it on. It activated once as I approached a stopped car at a red light just as I was about to brake myself, and I was a little late, so I thought that appropriate. It hasn't activated since in 2 years and 12k miles of driving in-town. I understand that it can be confused by snow and ice accumulating on the front of the car, so I try to keep that clear. Not sure if that's been verified, but it's plausible.
As to adaptive cruise, we don't use this car over-the-road, so our highway miles are pretty limited. Interstate across town, basically. I haven't used cruise control of any kind at all. We disable lane return (auto-steer or whatever they call it).
Driving is an inherently hazardous activity. We've reduced the risk very substantially in the 30+ years I've been behind the wheel, and for that I'm grateful. But it is also an inherently complex activity, and I don't expect AI systems to be able to replicate the alert, practiced, healthy human performance any time soon.
The aids I find personally useful enough to turn on/regularly use include:
- Lane departure alert
- Blind spot alert
- Rear cross-traffic alert
- Parking assist/360 camera
- Auto high beams
- Driver attentiveness
I haven't had any issue with auto braking in our 2019 Leaf+, so I've left it on. It activated once as I approached a stopped car at a red light just as I was about to brake myself, and I was a little late, so I thought that appropriate. It hasn't activated since in 2 years and 12k miles of driving in-town. I understand that it can be confused by snow and ice accumulating on the front of the car, so I try to keep that clear. Not sure if that's been verified, but it's plausible.
As to adaptive cruise, we don't use this car over-the-road, so our highway miles are pretty limited. Interstate across town, basically. I haven't used cruise control of any kind at all. We disable lane return (auto-steer or whatever they call it).
Driving is an inherently hazardous activity. We've reduced the risk very substantially in the 30+ years I've been behind the wheel, and for that I'm grateful. But it is also an inherently complex activity, and I don't expect AI systems to be able to replicate the alert, practiced, healthy human performance any time soon.
"Steering Assist." My experiences have been similar to yours, except with more highway driving - but with not a lot of total driving miles. I do use the steering assist, but only as a backup to my driving skills, which aren't what they once were. My housemate wouldn't use Pro Pilot until I turned it off in her car.
