First LBW

[Cheezmo]

Got my first LBW today.

Started with 100% charge, 265 GIDs
Drove 35 miles, max 65
Drove 6 miles charged level 2 blink for ~1.25 hours
Drove 6 miles
Drove 31 miles, "back roads" with some 65 highway.
arrived home with LBW, then 3 miles left into the garage.

Lowest I've been, turned off the climate control about 5 miles out to be sure.

Did what I needed it to do (get my son to a tennis match, eat lunch, go to second match, and head home).

I could have gone a little further for lunch to a DC QC but thought it would be fun to cut it a little close. The Level 2 pretty much covered the additional mileage needed to get to it.

 

[LEAFfan]

Got my first LBW today.
Started with 100% charge, 265 GIDs
Drove 35 miles, max 65
Drove 6 miles charged level 2 blink for ~1.25 hours
Drove 6 miles
Drove 31 miles, "back roads" with some 65 highway.
arrived home with LBW, then 3 miles left into the garage.
Lowest I've been, turned off the climate control about 5 miles out to be sure.
Did what I needed it to do (get my son to a tennis match, eat lunch, go to second match, and head home).
I could have gone a little further for lunch to a DC QC but thought it would be fun to cut it a little close. The Level 2 pretty much covered the additional mileage needed to get to it.

If you had "3 miles left" on the GOM, then maybe you meant VLBW which is at 8.5%. LBW is at 17.4% and you could never have 3 miles left on the GOM. My GOM has never shown 3 miles left. When it gets to 4 or 5, it immediately goes to VLBW and --- on the GOM.

 

[Boomer23]

thought it would be fun to cut it a little close.

You know, oddly, I understand what you mean. I get that same weird enjoyment out of pushing it once in a while. :roll:

We LEAF owners must be similar in that we get some perverse sense of enjoyment out of the "danger" element. There are few enough things in modern suburban life that provide our primitive hind brains with a bit of an adrenaline surge. It's safer than bungee jumping, I guess.

 

[Cheezmo]

If you had "3 miles left" on the GOM, then maybe you meant VLBW which is at 8.5%. LBW is at 17.4% and you could never have 3 miles left on the GOM. My GOM has never shown 3 miles left. When it gets to 4 or 5, it immediately goes to VLBW and --- on the GOM.

Maybe I missed the VLBW since I was listening to music and had the voice navigation on but I thought I was listening for it.. I heard one warning around 8 miles or so when the lights on the dash changed to indicate low battery, didn't notice anything after that.

And don't tell me you could NEVER have 3 miles on the GOM. I did, and my son can verify it. He even noticed when it briefly when back up to 4 when I was driving slowly in the neighborhood approaching home.

Maybe you can never see 3 because you are hypermiling near the end. I was being a little careful but probably still averaging under 4 m/kwh.

 

[Cheezmo]

Reading your message I am now sure I did not get VLBW since the GOM would have started showing --- at that point and mine was still flashing an estimate (of 3).

 

[Stanton]

I remember our soccer trips

Whenever I'm on the highway more than a few miles, I always keep it UNDER 60 (like 58-59); you would be amazed at what a difference a few miles/hr makes, especially if you're not in a hurry.

 

[Cheezmo]

Yeah, but I'm not going to be "that loser" driving 50 on a highway with a 70 mph speed limit.

I did 65 because I figured it would just get me there and back, but if I had had to do 60, I wouldn't have done it.

 

[LEAFfan]

If you had "3 miles left" on the GOM, then maybe you meant VLBW which is at 8.5%. LBW is at 17.4% and you could never have 3 miles left on the GOM. My GOM has never shown 3 miles left. When it gets to 4 or 5, it immediately goes to VLBW and --- on the GOM.

Maybe I missed the VLBW since I was listening to music and had the voice navigation on but I thought I was listening for it.. I heard one warning around 8 miles or so when the lights on the dash changed to indicate low battery, didn't notice anything after that.
And don't tell me you could NEVER have 3 miles on the GOM. I did, and my son can verify it. He even noticed when it briefly when back up to 4 when I was driving slowly in the neighborhood approaching home.

Maybe you need to reread what I wrote instead of flying off the handle. I didn't say you could never have 3 miles on the GOM. I said at 17.4% (LBW) you could never have 3 miles on the GOM, and you can't. It's impossible.

Maybe you can never see 3 because you are hypermiling near the end. I was being a little careful but probably still averaging under 4 m/kwh.

 

[KMG365]

I've driven mine into the "---" on the GOM three times now. I seem to remember there are three stages of various combinations of verbal and visual warnings, one earlier, one at about 8-9 on the GOM, one at 3-4 on the GOM as it changes to the "---", and then the more "assertive" prompt to search for nearby charging stations (hit that one a few days ago a few blocks from the house and again tonight as we were pulling into the driveway). I've still never felt what the so-called "turtle mode" feels like as the final hill near the house is a bugger and it still had full power in normal mode with "---" showing on the GOM. We tried a few times to find out what it was like, but we didn't want to drive around the neighborhood for half an hour and it seemed like the car got MUCH more efficient at the very end of the charge capacity.

 

[Cheezmo]

Whatever, someone else has now confirmed you can have 3 miles on the GOM before VLBW and I'm sure there weren't any assertive messages about finding a charging station after the LBW, so I'll stand by my original opinion that I arrived home with a flashing 3 on the GOM and had not received VLBW.

Not flying off the handle, what you wrote was very easy to misinterpret.

 

[Caracalover]

Numbers on the "Miles Remaining gauge" are strange and vary depending on temperature, how, and where you are driving. I have seen it say 19 with 6 bars of charge remaining, so a three with one bar is not out of the question at all. Kind of silly to even talk about it as it is not a real number related to state of charge.

I had one bar of charge remaining after cycling and 19 on the GOM when I realized I had left my charge cord at home. I then drove almost 30 miles further on basically flat land at speeds near 37MPH (Nissan says this is the optimal speed). (From Rosamond CA to Nissan dealer in Palmdale + side trip.) The warnings are just that - warnings. Heed them and you will get where you need to go, although I admit I did have to push it the last 50 feet up the driveway. My fault not the cars - as a matter of fact the experience left me convinced Nissan built us a great car.

 

[planet4ever]

Numbers on the "Miles Remaining gauge" are strange and vary depending on temperature, how, and where you are driving. I have seen it say 19 with 6 bars of charge remaining, so a three with one bar is not out of the question at all. Kind of silly to even talk about it as it is not a real number related to state of charge.

Actually, GOM=3 with one bar showing would seem very strange to me, but it may be that different cars behave differently. I tend to snort whenever people put any faith in GOM numbers when the battery is full or half full, but on my car, at least, the GOM behaves quite repeatably at low battery charge levels.

• At LBW I almost always have GOM=8; once or possibly twice it was at 9. I always have one bar at that point.
• At VLBW the GOM has always gone from 3 to ---. I have always lost the last bar well before that; I haven't kept track of that statistic, but I think it is usually at GOM=6 or 7.
• I've only been to turtle once, but I think Tony's rule of thumb is pretty good. If you continue to drive the same way after VLBW as you did between LBW and VLBW, the distance from VLBW to turtle will be about half the distance from LBW to VLBW. Personally I really baby the battery once it hits VLBW, and I have gone nearly as far on that last leg as on the leg before, without seeing the turtle.

Ray

 

[LEAFfan]

Whatever, someone else has now confirmed you can have 3 miles on the GOM before VLBW and I'm sure there weren't any assertive messages about finding a charging station after the LBW, so I'll stand by my original opinion that I arrived home with a flashing 3 on the GOM and had not received VLBW.Not flying off the handle, what you wrote was very easy to misinterpret.

You really need to read more carefully and understand the difference between LBW and VLBW. It isn't our sentences (they are clear and succinct), it's your misreading, not misinterpretation. Again, when you get LBW, it's impossible to have a '3' reading on the GOM. That "someone else" was talking about VLBW, not LBW, a big difference. Yes, you could possibly have a 3 (I've gone to VLBW many times and have yet to show a '3') after VLBW, but that's not what you said. You said you had a 3 on the GOM after LBW.
I'm pointing this out because I don't want other people to get confused like you seem to be. After LBW, a driver could drive at least another 20 miles until Turtle (at least 13 until VLBW) at 35-40mph.

 

[Cheezmo]

I got LBW (at around 8 miles).

I drove about 5 miles

I had a blinking 3 on the GOM.

I had not yet received a VLBW.

I turned off the car.

I hope that was clear.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Whatever, someone else has now confirmed you can have 3 miles on the GOM before VLBW and I'm sure there weren't any assertive messages about finding a charging station after the LBW, so I'll stand by my original opinion that I arrived home with a flashing 3 on the GOM and had not received VLBW.

Not flying off the handle, what you wrote was very easy to misinterpret.

Today, I had both 4, then 3, then 4, then 3 then --- for about 10 miles. I arrived at the destination with 7.5% useable battery energy left when I stopped.

Why does it matter what the GoM is doing?

Hint: the flashing "---" is always associated with VLB which in turn is always associated with 49 Gid, plus or minus one.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I got LBW (at around 8 miles).

I drove about 5 miles

I had a blinking 3 on the GOM.

I had not yet received a VLBW.

I turned off the car.

I hope that was clear.

Very clear. You did not get VLB because you did not get the associated "---" on the GoM display. In addition, you were above 50 Gid (50 units of 80 watt/hours stored).

 

[ztanos]

I got LBW (at around 8 miles).

I drove about 5 miles

I had a blinking 3 on the GOM.

I had not yet received a VLBW.

I turned off the car.

I hope that was clear.

Very clear. You did not get VLB because you did not get the associated "---" on the GoM display. In addition, you were above 50 Gid (50 units of 80 watt/hours stored).

I do believe you are both saying the same thing in different ways.

 

[gbshaun]

Yesterday a second bike on the rack, plus an unexpected detour, took me down to 1 bar with 8 miles left to drive, and 10 on the GOM
I'd been averaging 3.2m/kWh until that point on I-5, but was now on the coast road so going significantly slower.
I soon got the LBW.
When I got home I was still on one bar and "4" on the GOM.

I don't generally follow the GOM (though do reset the "average m/kWh" before trips >50 miles), but when down into single digits i really was looking for some kind of "bottom-up" information, rather than my usual "top-down" gauge (roughly 20kWh X m/kWh)

So my question is, how much range DID i actually have at that point?
CAN the GOM be used to provide useful information at that point? After steady, moderate driving for 8 miles is that "4" somewhat accurate?
Or is there a reserve where we know there are a few extra miles not shown?

Given that, upon hitting 1 bar, most people are going to start caring a lot about their remaining range, and significantly change their driving habits, it would seem that the GOM at that point should vastly reduce the time over which it looks back at m/kWh

Shaun

 

[DaveEV]

So my question is, how much range DID i actually have at that point?
CAN the GOM be used to provide useful information at that point? After steady, moderate driving for 8 miles is that "4" somewhat accurate?
Or is there a reserve where we know there are a few extra miles not shown?

Typically the LBW will come on with around 7-9 miles on the GOM and VLBW will come on with 3-4 miles on the GOM (at which point the GOM will switch to ---). So with 4 miles on the GOM, you were pretty close to VLBW.

It appears that the GID count is fixed for both of those events, LBW will come around 45 GIDs and VLBW will come around 24 GIDs. Turtle comes on around 5 GIDs.

So, one can assume that they have about 3.2 kWh usable left at LBW and 1.5 kWh usable at VLBW. Assuming one can do around 4 mi/kWh which is typically pretty easy if driving gently, you'll have about 13 miles when LBW comes on and 6 miles when VLBW comes on before turtle hits. Since you were driving gently, you probably were getting closer to 5 mi/kWh which would give you 16 miles at LBW and 7.5 miles at VLBW which seems to match up nicely if you got your LBW at 7 miles to go - you probably had about another mile before VLBW.

The GOM is a bit pessimistic when you get down to 1 bar - that seems to keep people from draining it as was prevalent when before they reprogrammed the meter when the LEAF was first released.

I found this web page which has a lot of the information (largely collected from this forum it appears) related to range, battery, etc which I used to help write this post:
http://www.roperld.com/science/NissanLeaf.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[gbshaun]

...VLBW will come on with 3-4 miles on the GOM (at which point the GOM will switch to ---). So with 4 miles on the GOM, you were pretty close to VLBW.

Yes. In fact when i switched the car back on a few minutes later It was showing ---. Through the LCD I found a range reference of "3". I didn't get a VLBW, but I was only backing into the garage.

So, one can assume that they have about 3.2 kWh usable left at LBW and 1.5 kWh usable at VLBW.

That's useful information for me, thanks. I've learned the relationship between driving habits and m/kWh (or can watch it on the display) to turn that into distance.

you probably were getting closer to 5 mi/kWh which would give you 16 miles at LBW and 7.5 miles at VLBW which seems to match up nicely if you got your LBW at 7 miles to go - you probably had about another mile before VLBW.
The GOM is a bit pessimistic when you get down to 1 bar - that seems to keep people from draining it as was prevalent when before they reprogrammed the meter when the LEAF was first released.

That's about what i was thinking. The "GOM=9" was based on 3.3m/kWh. I knew I'd add another 50% by driving at 5m/kWh (= 13.5mi). Plus I was guessing they'd hidden a couple of miles for exactly the reason you state.

I found this web page which has a lot of the information (largely collected from this forum it appears) related to range, battery, etc which I used to help write this post:
http://www.roperld.com/science/NissanLeaf.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nice site! I'll bookmark that. As you say much collected from here, but organizing and summarizing this info is a lot of work.

So it seems, as far as range goes, at 5m/kWh we have:
LBW-VLBW = 8.5 miles
VLBW - Turtle = 7.5 miles
Turtle - Dead = 0.4 miles

Thanks for helping my understanding of what to expect when venturing into the red zone!