Had the P3227 reprogram done today: interesting results.

[GlennD]

I was off today so I stopped off at Stadium Nissan with no appointment. They were able to upgrade my Leaf and mount my new wheel.

So far everything looks the same. I had the same gids in and out.

My battery health was unchanged at 92.89%

 

[TonyWilliams]

Since we all only get one shot at this, I thought I'd poll those following this for a set of before (and after) measurements to take. I'll start:

So.. Tony, are you trying to emphasize the importance of measuring the energy required to charge or pointing out my poor choice of units on #6 (said power, but meant energy (kWh))

No, just indicating measuring the power drawn from the wall during identical battery temperatures, both before and after the firmware update.

• 
  x) turtle to 100% - kWh from wall
  1) number of capacity bars
  2) pack volts at LBW,VLBW, 80% charge, 100% charge
  3) gids at LBW, VLBW, 80% charge, 100% charge
  4) SOC at LBW, VLBW, 80% charge, 100% charge
  5) Ah at LBW, VLBW, 80% charge, 100% charge
  5b) capacity bar firmware upgrade
  5b) repeat 1-5
  6) turtle-100% charge power from wall
  

 

[TonyWilliams]

First we had 'old bars' and 'new bars' on the GOM. Then GIDs and 'GIDs. Now old and new battery capacity bars....

Yes, enough to make your head spin. I wish that Turbo3 had listened and adjusted the 'Gids formula to make this "unit" of measure more accurate. What we started out with was an approximation based on a number of assumptions, and some did not pan out.

Yeah, I would not bother reporting 'Gids. However, if you report Ah and SOC%, that should be enough to get close to GIDs (search the big ELM327 thread for a decent formula which is much closer than the current formula for estimating GIDs from Ah and SOC%).

I wouldn't use 'gids at all.

It will take two meters, a Gidmeter and the Turbo3 app, to get all the info.

 

[TickTock]

Yes, enough to make your head spin. I wish that Turbo3 had listened and adjusted the 'Gids formula to make this "unit" of measure more accurate. What we started out with was an approximation based on a number of assumptions, and some did not pan out.

Yeah, I would not bother reporting 'Gids. However, if you report Ah and SOC%, that should be enough to get close to GIDs (search the big ELM327 thread for a decent formula which is much closer than the current formula for estimating GIDs from Ah and SOC%).

I wouldn't use 'gids at all.

It will take two meters, a Gidmeter and the Turbo3 app, to get all the info.

Or the CANary - All-In-One. However that doesn't have near the market penetration (understandably)

 

[TonyWilliams]

Or the CANary - All-In-One. However that doesn't have near the market penetration (understandably)

Sounds great. I'll take anything I can get when we test a car or two next month.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Agreed. I have a route that I have been using for some time, perhaps in a different fashion than some, but which fits the purpose for me... I think it will be sufficient, at least, for me to determine if there is any actual increase in range from those phantom 18 Gids...

IMO, it may be very difficult to find see small changes in capacity above the "noise" that is inevitable in any range test.

range will vary for dozens of reasons but a route you drive often would be enough to tell even if just using starting and stopping GID counts as long as you get to near VLB. just take the averages of a dozen trips or so. 18 GID is 4 miles. that should be fairly easy to spot over time

 

[TomT]

I drove the route yesterday and the results were inconclusive. I went about 1 to 2 miles further than where I typically hit LBW, whereas I was expecting closer to 4 if the range increase was real... I'm going to drive it again Sunday and next week and see what I get. I've driven this route many dozens of times in the past so I have a very good feel for it...

Agreed. I have a route that I have been using for some time, perhaps in a different fashion than some, but which fits the purpose for me... I think it will be sufficient, at least, for me to determine if there is any actual increase in range from those phantom 18 Gids...

IMO, it may be very difficult to find see small changes in capacity above the "noise" that is inevitable in any range test.

range will vary for dozens of reasons but a route you drive often would be enough to tell even if just using starting and stopping GID counts as long as you get to near VLB. just take the averages of a dozen trips or so. 18 GID is 4 miles. that should be fairly easy to spot over time

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I notified TaylorSF Guy about the possible boost in range and since his commute is right at the max range he has left, should provide a good indication if anything can be gained here.

he has question on whether this is part of any warranty limitation or not. i am guessing its just SW so mileage or age of car would not make a difference?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I drove the route yesterday and the results were inconclusive. I went about 1 to 2 miles further than where I typically hit LBW, whereas I was expecting closer to 4 if the range increase was real... I'm going to drive it again Sunday and see what I get. I've driven this route many dozens of times in the past so I have a very good feel for it...

ya, i wouldnt make any conclusions unless you can see something at least 3-4 times in a row. same with GIDs. mine is pretty static but still get outliers ALWAYS on the high end that are as much as 10-11 higher than the average. but will say i was shocked to see 18 GIDs. that is a lot but still should see at least 4 miles...

in the past 2 weeks, i have had 10 readings that were either 260 or 261 so taking that is true capacity (for lack of a better way!) but still popped up with a 269 on Wed. now is that something?

probably not. every time i get something like that, i track the mileage for the first 20 GIDs or so since for me they are relatively static (i have a tendency to be on the road well before 5 AM which makes traffic variations minimal) and the first 20 were used about the rate that 15 would have been used so thinking my "269" was probably more like 264

 

[edatoakrun]

="TomT" I drove the route yesterday and the results were inconclusive. I went about 1 to 2 miles further than where I typically hit LBW, whereas I was expecting closer to 4 if the range increase was real... I'm going to drive it again Sunday and see what I get. I've driven this route many dozens of times in the past so I have a very good feel for it...

Maybe you implied this, but I'd suggest timing all range tests, preferably with several checkpoints to show replication of speed on different segments of the route if your speed varies. Time records largely eliminate any reason (in a single-car comparison test) to try to maintain constant speed, which is usually impossible to achieve on public roads anyway, and also eliminates the problem of speedometer/GPS speed reporting error, even if you can do a "constant" speed test.

You probably will find that your "feel" is pretty good in determining time and speed(s), but very small variations in speed will produce significant differences in range. and Dave is right of course, in suggesting multiple tests on the same route, if possible.

If you do want to try a "constant" speed test, I'd suggest trying it at 45, 60, or 70 MPH, so you can compare your LEAFs capacity and performance with the one tested here:

http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/fsev/fact2011nissanleaf.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=13265" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

="DaveinOlyWA"]...range will vary for dozens of reasons but a route you drive often would be enough to tell even if just using starting and stopping GID counts as long as you get to near VLB. just take the averages of a dozen trips or so. 18 GID is 4 miles. that should be fairly easy to spot over time...

I notified TaylorSF Guy about the possible boost in range and since his commute is right at the max range he has left, should provide a good indication if anything can be gained here...

Please TaylorSF, try for range and recharge capacity tests before and after.

As (apparently) the only cool weather LEAF with bar loss or significant range/capacity loss so far, you may be our only shot at data collection for the update's effects on those LEAF's.

 

[LEAFer]

No, just indicating measuring the power drawn from the wall during identical battery temperatures, both before and after the firmware update.

• 
  x) turtle to 100% - kWh from wall
  1) number of capacity bars
  2) pack volts at LBW,VLBW, 80% charge, 100% charge
  3) gids at LBW, VLBW, 80% charge, 100% charge
  4) SOC at LBW, VLBW, 80% charge, 100% charge
  5) Ah at LBW, VLBW, 80% charge, 100% charge
  5b) capacity bar firmware upgrade
  5b) repeat 1-5
  6) turtle-100% charge power from wall
  

I'm having the re-program done on Monday, primarily because we lost the 12th bar so recently. Not sure though if I'll have enough time to do all the measurements before&after.

Suggestion: It may also be useful to measure "Turtle-80%" before&after. Reason: we know 80% is always 80%, thus if the BOTTOM reserve capacity has changed it should be detectable. If both BOTTOM & TOP change you won't be able to tell the difference. I suggest using the timer to go to 80%, take a measurement as soon as possible after reaching it, then immediately use the override button and measure again after reaching 100%.

 

[Luft]

Will we be able to tell if Nissan cut into the bottom reserve? That would be a dangerous way to add range.

 

[TickTock]

Will we be able to tell if Nissan cut into the bottom reserve? That would be a dangerous way to add range.

Probably, unless very elegantly done. We have the charge profiles very well documented so if we discharge to a lower voltage, we'll know. However, I really doubt there will be any funny business. Nissan is (painfully) aware of the zeal in which we dig into the minutia of this revolutionary vehicle so wouldn't dare even if they wanted to.

 

[TomT]

OK, another well known trip to just below LBW today... Based on this I now feel comfortable in saying that I have, indeed, picked up some range... My best guess currently is about 5 miles on a full charge. More quantification later after I have more data points... By the way, a full charge this morning netted 236 Gids, down two from what I initially had after the reprogram but still well above the 220 I had before...

 

[TickTock]

It took a month for my gid count to get back to the pre-reset state.

 

[TomT]

Did you notice any difference in range during that period? I can see the Gid numbers being wrong, perhaps, but I can't equate how this ties in (or not) with the range increase I now appear to have...

It took a month for my gid count to get back to the pre-reset state.

 

[dsh]

Charged to 80% this morning and Range was 82 miles. I have never had 82 miles in such a while now. I reset my mi/kwh on the LEAF Display. Nissan CarWings said my Current mi/kwh was 7.9.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Did you notice any difference in range during that period? I can see the Gid numbers being wrong, perhaps, but I can't equate how this ties in (or not) with the range increase I now appear to have...

It took a month for my gid count to get back to the pre-reset state.

anyone somewhat "miffed" that it would appear Nissan may have known this for a while and was a bit slow in getting a fix?

 

[Stoaty]

Did you notice any difference in range during that period? I can see the Gid numbers being wrong, perhaps, but I can't equate how this ties in (or not) with the range increase I now appear to have...

anyone somewhat "miffed" that it would appear Nissan may have known this for a while and was a bit slow in getting a fix?

No, I am going to wait and see how this shakes out over time before deciding if I should be "miffed" or not. I would need to see a lot more evidence stretching over a number of months before I am convinced.

 

[TomT]

If you are talking about the GOM, it really is worthless for any meaningful comparisons. You can't use it for any real range determination.

Charged to 80% this morning and Range was 82 miles. I have never had 82 miles in such a while now. I reset my mi/kwh on the LEAF Display. Nissan CarWings said my Current mi/kwh was 7.9.