HD Video Test Drive & Review- Santa Monica, CA Press Event

[GreenEnergyNews]

Thought you guys might be interested in watching/reading our review and test drive of the LEAF. We had the opportunity to test drive a production prototype at the LEAF press event in Santa Monica, CA last week. I must say... this is a FUN car to drive!

We were most impressed by the smooth ride... almost luxury car like. A little disappointed that the solar panel option will only result in a trickle-charge, but it is a neat feature to add. Since we're all about sustainability, we were very impressed by the fact that the interior and bumpers were all made from recycled PET (plastic).

Enjoy!
http://www.renewable-energy-news.info/nissan-leaf-test-drive-review/

 

[JasonT]

For those that were interested in the backup camera, we have our first (I believe) video of it - it's at 3:05 in this video. I think it was already confirmed that the backup camera was in color - but here it is in all of its glory

The article states

A downside of EVs in general is that they require about 25 percent more energy when powering the HVAC (Heating, Ventilating, and Air Conditioning) system when compared to standard gas-guzzlers, since the motor does not produce heat.

Wouldn't that only apply to the heating, though? An ICE system has to use the same power for the V and AC part of HVAC that an all electric system does. I mean, I readily acknowledge that using either the heater or the AC will lower your effective range, but using the AC in an ICE vehicle also lowers your effective range.

 

[evnow]

A downside of EVs in general is that they require about 25 percent more energy when powering the HVAC (Heating, Ventilating, and Air Conditioning) system when compared to standard gas-guzzlers, since the motor does not produce heat.

Can you expand on this - perhaps giving the exact quote (and if in response to a question, the question asked) ? This is the first time I've seen a number for AC/Heat.

BTW, welcome to the forum.

 

[LEAFer]

A downside of EVs in general is that they require about 25 percent more energy when powering the HVAC (Heating, Ventilating, and Air Conditioning) system when compared to standard gas-guzzlers, since the motor does not produce heat.

Can you expand on this - perhaps giving the exact quote (and if in response to a question, the question asked) ? This is the first time I've seen a number for AC/Heat.

BTW, welcome to the forum.

It's in the article ... ( and, IMHO, over-"blown" (on "H" or heat) and wrong (on VAC) )

 

[evnow]

It's in the article ... ( and, IMHO, over-"blown" (on "H" or heat) and wrong (on VAC) )

Yes, I saw the statement in the article - just asking for more details on this ... for eg. does AC/Heat reduce range by 25% ? The statement per se (comparing to energy use in gas cars for ac/heat) is not that helpful ...

 

[GreenEnergyNews]

When watching the presentation before the test drive, Nissan showed as different pie charts regarding range on a full charge.

Nissan confirmed that driving with the heat on would use more battery power than running the AC. Whether it was driving at city speeds with the heat on, or highway speeds with the AC on... it seemed as if the HVAC system would never use more than 25% of the battery's charge. Meaning even blasting the heat at highway speeds, you'd still get about 75mi range.

Hope that helps...

 

[evnow]

When watching the presentation before the test drive, Nissan showed as different pie charts regarding range on a full charge.

Ok - that must the same one they presented during their Yokohama test drives. Here is my compilation of the numbers ...

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

The should look as ice storage as a way to cut down the impact the AC has on the range.

 

[mwalsh]

Welcome GreenEnergyNews! Have to go into a meeting, but will check your piece when I get done.

 

[Nubo]

Wouldn't that only apply to the heating, though? An ICE system has to use the same power for the V and AC part of HVAC that an all electric system does. I mean, I readily acknowledge that using either the heater or the AC will lower your effective range, but using the AC in an ICE vehicle also lowers your effective range.

But, less of an impact by percentage on an ICE, since it's already wasting so much energy anyway.

 

[Nubo]

The should look as ice storage as a way to cut down the impact the AC has on the range.

In a sense, they have done so. Pre-cooling while attached to the grid. Cooling down the thermal mass of the interior is the equivalent of making some trays of ice, just less messy.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

The should look as ice storage as a way to cut down the impact the AC has on the range.

In a sense, they have done so. Pre-cooling while attached to the grid. Cooling down the thermal mass of the interior is the equivalent of making some trays of ice, just less messy.

There are large scale AC systems that use this technology. It would be interesting to know if it could be scaled. The pre-cooling that you refer to is fine for making the car comfortable when you start out, but it doesn't really help improve range, because so much of the time a car's AC just runs flat out. When the car is connected to the grid it could store a few BTU's in a small ice block.

 

[garygid]

The LEAF does generate significant heat, otherwise it would not have an under-hood cooling system.

 

[evnow]

When the car is connected to the grid it could store a few BTU's in a small ice block.

That is interesting. I wonder what is the "energy" density and $/"kwh" of an ice block is - and how it compared to the battery.

 

[AndyH]

http://www.instructables.com/id/Portable-12V-Air-Conditioner---Cheap-and-easy!/

An EV 'range extender' for hot climates? :lol:

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

When the car is connected to the grid it could store a few BTU's in a small ice block.

That is interesting. I wonder what is the "energy" density and $/"kwh" of an ice block is - and how it compared to the battery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_of_fusion

To heat one kilogram (about 1 litre) of water from 283.15 K to 303.15 K (10 °C to 30 °C) requires 83.6 kJ.
However, to melt ice and raise the resulting water temperature by 20 K requires extra energy. To heat ice from 273.15 K to water at 293.15 K requires:

(1) 333.55 J/g (heat of fusion of ice) = 333.55 kJ/kg = 333.55 kJ for 1 kg of ice to melt
PLUS
(2) 4.18 J/(g·K) = 4.18 kJ/(kg·K) = 83.6 kJ for 1kg of water to go up 20 K
= 417.15 kJ

So help me with the math here:

1 kJoule = 0.27778 watt-hours

417 kJ * 0.28 wh/kJ = 116 wh/liter

In round numbers that's 400 wh/gallon. So 1 kilowatt would take about 2 1/2 gallons, or 20 lbs.

Did I screw that up somewhere?

 

[DeaneG]

The Leaf battery is about 25 lb/kWh, but I think A/C (as a heat pump) is more efficient at transferring heat than 1.0. So we might as well find room for a larger battery instead of a block of ice.

 

[mwalsh]

Nice! Good to see some quality video of the car!

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

The Leaf battery is about 25 lb/kWh, but I think A/C (as a heat pump) is more efficient at transferring heat than 1.0. So we might as well find room for a larger battery instead of a block of ice.

Good point, all the ice can do is absorb the heat, while electricity can move it. On the flip side though a block of ice is a lot cheaper than batteries per pound. Obviously the commercial ice storage systems don't have to consider weight so the approach scales up well but not down.

The only other mildly intriguing aspect of the ice storage would be that it could be configurable. Drain the water out in the winter.

Speaking of winter, what about a small propane heater? That's probably been beat to death.

 

[evnow]

Speaking of winter, what about a small propane heater? That's probably been beat to death.

Propane = fossil fuel = not zero emission. Not gonna happen.