Hidden Reserve - What is hiding in your 24, 30, 40, 62 kWh Battery?

[knightmb]

I see this come up in topics, but it would be nice to have one place for us to post what we see as capacity below 0% or ---% for the Generation 1 Leaf.

For example, in my 2020 SL Plus, going by LeafSpy, Turtle mode kicks in at 1.0 kWh of remaining battery and full shutdown at 0.7 kWh remaining. I'll have to figure out the math for GIDs on that later and update this topic. Before It hits turtle mode though, at 0% Dash reading, there is still 8 kWh of capacity left when watching it in LeafSpy and it is usable range. I've driven down the extra 20-30 miles just to see myself.

In my 2013 SV, turtle mode hit at 0.5 kWh and shutdown was 0.3 kWh (again, will have to figure out the GIDs math and update this). When the dash ---%, I recall I still had about 1.0 kWH of remaining power, so a very small buffer for range, but one could still squeeze maybe 4 or 5 more miles out of it when driving slow.

I don't know much about the 30 or 40 kWh packs and how much is left on the battery past 0%, but I would certainly like to hear what others have experienced. :mrgreen:

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

Yes, the buffer on the 62kWh pack is quite generous. It should help pack life over time though.

 

[Stanton]

How about this: I put a 40 kWh pack in my car so I don't even have to think about what the reserve is (because I have no plans to go near it)!

 

[knightmb]

I share the sentiment, it is nice to know for emergency reasons. If you are coming in to a QC and the site is offline for some reason, you have to get to another one far away and the GOM isn't giving you much confidence that you will make it....unless you know the GOM is kind of lying near the bottom end of the battery range.

 

[SageBrush]

I presume the reserve amount will decrease as the battery degrades. I'm happier getting a 'kWh remaining' read from an app.

BTW, 8 kWh reserve sounds truly excessive. I doubt Nissan designed it that way

 

[GerryAZ]

My 2011 and 2015 were both similar and very consistent: LBW (low battery warning--when GOM starts flashing remaining miles) would happen at 49 "GIDS"; VLBW (very low battery warning--when GOM switches to --- remaining miles) would happen at 24 GIDS; Turtle (power limited mode) would happen at 5 GIDS; and Shutdown (main DC contactor opens) would happen at 4 GIDS when running climate control in the driveway. I would typically get about 7 miles after LBW before VLBW and another 7 miles after VLBW. There is normally not much left once the Turtle indicator comes on--maybe 0.25 to 0.5 mile if driven very slow and gentle. A few weak cells toward the end of the time I had the 2015 resulted in premature Turtle mode a few times and I was once able to drive over a mile at very low speeds to reach a charging station, but that was unusual and I was very lucky.

My 2019 SL Plus is not as consistent, but there is a lot left after the first warning: LBW usually happens at 6% SOC and around 106 to 112 GIDS; VLBW usually happens at 2% SOC and around 78 to 82 GIDS; ELBW (extremely low battery--when SOC display switches to ---%) usually happens around 58 to 64 GIDS; Turtle usually happens around 9 to 19 GIDS; and Shutdown usually happens around 6 to 9 GIDS when running climate control in the driveway. Although distances are less consistent, I have driven as much as 34 miles after LBW, 30 miles after VLBW, 16 miles after ELBW, and as much a mile after Turtle.

There is not enough degradation yet to know if the reserve levels change over time with the 62 kWh battery in the 2019, but they were consistent on the 24 kWh batteries in both the 2011 (replacement battery from Japan with original chemistry) and 2015 from the time the batteries were new until the 2011 was totaled and until I traded the 2015 at 82k miles.

 

[Stanton]

My 2011 and 2015 were both similar and very consistent: LBW (low battery warning--when GOM starts flashing remaining miles) would happen at 49 "GIDS"; VLBW (very low battery warning--when GOM switches to --- remaining miles) would happen at 24 GIDS; Turtle (power limited mode) would happen at 5 GIDS; and Shutdown (main DC contactor opens) would happen at 4 GIDS when running climate control in the driveway.

I see the same numbers with the 40 kWh battery in my 2011. I guess that means these warnings are "hard coded" into the car BMS (or whatever)?

 

[knightmb]

I finally got some hard numbers for mine so I'm not just guessing from memory. I will be able to check if these change over time (as the battery loses capacity) or if Nissan has kind of soft-coded in these levels to be hidden regardless to make sure the battery range doesn't change over time by eating up some of the hidden range left at the bottom. Using small images to save people bandwidth/viewing headaches. :mrgreen:

2% Battery - 79 GIDS - 6.1 kWh

1% Battery - 74 GIDS - 5.7 kWh

0% Battery - 65 GIDS - 5.0 kWh

 

[knightmb]

I've repeated the experiment using my wife's 2018 (40 kWh battery). Her Leaf is nearly 4 years old now, so expect better results if your Leaf is newer and the battery is better than the +92% SOH that her battery is showing in LeafSpy.

Starting at 2% SOC and working down to 0% SOC with Dash and LeafSpy readings. I cleaned the dash glass after I saw how bad 2% came out. :lol: These pictures and readings are recorded the instant the Leaf changes what it shows on the Dash.

2% SOC - 52 GIDS - 4.0 kWh

1% SOC - 48 GIDS - 3.7 kWh

0% SOC - 44 GIDS - 3.4 kWh

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

5kWh at ---, nice! That's 9% of a full charge.

 

[user 24513]

Thanks great report! I notice that the reserve starts to be stashed at between 40% and 30% on the dashboard, that is when LeafSpy and the dash begin to show different SOC. and it is most of the 10% or so by the time it gets to 20% on the dash. Still pisses me off that they don't start way higher and have it be proportional rather than having the dash showing plummet toward the lower numbers.

 

[knightmb]

Thanks great report! I notice that the reserve starts to be stashed at between 40% and 30% on the dashboard, that is when LeafSpy and the dash begin to show different SOC. and it is most of the 10% or so by the time it gets to 20% on the dash. Still pisses me off that they don't start way higher and have it be proportional rather than having the dash showing plummet toward the lower numbers.

I know, the only logic I can think of is "anything over +200 miles works on the psychological level for customers" followed by "we don't want people not paying attention to run the Leaf down to 0% and get stranded, so let's make them freak out and then somehow they can drive an extra 20 miles to the nearest charger anyway" :lol:

 

[rogersleaf]

5kWh at ---, nice! That's 9% of a full charge.

Took my 40KWh Leaf on a road trip yesterday where ran it down to "---" SOC on the 1st leg. Leafspy was showing 10% and @ 4.5KWh remaining at at reaching "---" SOC.

This was the coldest air temps (19F) that I've ever attempted stretching distance in a Leaf. Very thankful for having Leafspy running as a 2nd gauge set while watching the range vaporize much faster than anticipated on what should be an easy to achieve 97 mile leg. I used up about 1/2 that hidden reserve and got off the interstate for some lower speed secondary roads to reach the planned charging stop. Interesting the EA station display was showing 0% SOC until it dispensed enough to reach a positive SOC on the car's dashboard. EA also gave a decent charge curve, went from -5% to 80% in 43 minutes and held 47KW to @ 55% SOC, total dispensed 27KWh in that 43 minutes.

 

[knightmb]

5kWh at ---, nice! That's 9% of a full charge.

Took my 40KWh Leaf on a road trip yesterday where ran it down to "---" SOC on the 1st leg. Leafspy was showing 10% and @ 4.5KWh remaining at at reaching "---" SOC.

Wow, quite a bit more than what my Wife's Leaf reads when she reaches 0%. She drives a 2018, but my guess you are driving something brand new?

 

[rogersleaf]

5kWh at ---, nice! That's 9% of a full charge.

Took my 40KWh Leaf on a road trip yesterday where ran it down to "---" SOC on the 1st leg. Leafspy was showing 10% and @ 4.5KWh remaining at at reaching "---" SOC.

Wow, quite a bit more than what my Wife's Leaf reads when she reaches 0%. She drives a 2018, but my guess you are driving something brand new?

No. It's a 2019 SL with almost 56K miles and @ 10% capacity loss.

Now, the return trip was a different story and more like I had anticipated. I had returned to the same EA station and recharged to 95%. That was enough to get straight home with 17% remaining on the dashboard (27% on Leafspy). But the air temps had warmed to the high-30's, battery temps had warmed @ 40F to the 80's, and was able to draft behind a semi truck locking ProPilot on a steady 68 mph for most of the trip. That produced a very workable 265 watt-hrs/mile average.