Is anyone else buying a 2012 SV (no Quick Charge)?

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milanski

Active member
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Messages
34
Location
Louisville, CO
Help me out here. I just don't understand why 95% are buying the SL with Quick Charge.

The SL costs $2000 more in 2012, and I just can't see why people want the QC when the Leaf range is 70-100 miles. Are you going to do long trips and stop every hour to charge? Is it 'peace of mind' in case you need to go >100 miles on a particular day? Is it resale?

Like many, I plan on using the Leaf as a commuter car, live near a metro area (Denver), and will charge it every night in my garage when I get home. I have a second ICE car for long trips.

Am I being silly? Is anyone buying the SV? Why or why not? Thanks!
 
I am seriously considering buying the 2012 SV. I live in West Central Texas, far away from the sexy cities with all the planned L3 charge stations. I don't have an L3 station anywhere within a reasonable distance. I plan to keep the car for 3 years then to move on to the next iteration. Ergo, no QuickCharge for me.
 
I have an SV on order, too.

I have a 40-mile, round-trip commute and have driven over 100 miles in one day maybe once in the past five years. I may not even get a L2. The L1, which comes with the car, will likely be more than adequate.

Given how slow South Floridians tend to be in adopting “alternate fuel” vehicles, I’d be extremely surprised if I saw a single L3 down here anytime in the next ten years.
 
Besides quick charge port what do you lose when you go from SL to SV ?

So quick port supposed value $700
solar panel spoiler ? 295?
rearview monitor† $395 ?
HomeLink® universal transceiver $150 ?
fog lamps $195
cargo cover $135 ?

eh its about right

still wish they had Leather, heated windshield , drop the Navigation options
 
milanski said:
Help me out here. I just don't understand why 95% are buying the SL with Quick Charge.

The SL costs $2000 more in 2012, and I just can't see why people want the QC when the Leaf range is 70-100 miles. Are you going to do long trips and stop every hour to charge? Is it 'peace of mind' in case you need to go >100 miles on a particular day? Is it resale?

Like many, I plan on using the Leaf as a commuter car, live near a metro area (Denver), and will charge it every night in my garage when I get home. I have a second ICE car for long trips.

Am I being silly? Is anyone buying the SV? Why or why not? Thanks!
I am buying a SV as well. My reasoning is similar to yours. And I would add the sparse to non-existing QC infrastructure. I think the fleet-wide overall percentage of QC electrons compared to L2/L1 electrons will be minimal for years to come. Maybe most early adopters are technology geeks with disposable income. :) The only feature of the SL I really covet is the rear view camera.
 
Yep, it seems the second reason many get the SL is for the rearview camera. I don't think I'd miss that for $2k.

95% of buyers going for the SL puzzles me. I just can't see the need for that QC. SL-buyers, enlighten me :)

And is anyone else going for the base SV? Thanks!
 
I wanted the backup camera, homelink, and the QC. QC is the key to opening up easy trips to OC and LA from San Diego. One stop for 30 minutes (gotta eat after all) and no stress. L2 would only serve if ALL my stops offered L2 charging...much harder to count on. It's also chicken and egg thing...if nobody gets the port, then nobody will install the chargers. Somebody has to take a chance if we ever hope to have infrastructure.

P.S. Yes, I got the QC free from the EV Project, but I would have got it anyway.
 
The only SL feature that I'd really like is Homelink. I have that on both of my current vehicles, but it's not worth $2000.

So my order is for an SV as well. It will be my commuter car, about 70 miles round trip. My company is planning to install an L2 charger, so I probably won't bother getting one for home.
 
I ordered SL for the features but no QC L3 port.
Life is fine as I am just now getting L2 at home after four months and 5500 miles.
L2 is going to seem like a QC ;)
 
SV for me as well. I seriously doubt CHAdeMO will be the true standard in the US. SAE Level 3, even though it's late, will be the standard in the long run so I don't want to spend money on something that will be depricated.

+Colorado has no CHAdeMO charging anyway so no loss.
 
It's important to not confuse that the QC option is $2K more. The $2K more between SL and SV includes more than just the QC option. The QC option is only $700 in the 2011 model.

Now why would you want to pay $700 for the QC option? First of all, it's not something you can add on afterward. So if you don't choose it up front, you won't be able to do any kind of QC at all afterward (at least for cheap).

And even if CHAdeMO is not going to be the standard (but maybe it will, we just don't know yet), as long as the QC port is there, people can make adapters to convert from whatever the standard is going to be to the CHAdeMO port for QC. Or maybe there will be third party options to swap out the current L2 port for the "new standard" port in its place, with behind-the-scene/under-the-hood rewiring to enable both DC and AC connectivity to the Leaf battery and charger. The CHAdeMO port can be left alone as is for CHAdeMO charge stations. Then you have the best of everything. As long as the QC heavy-duty wiring is already in place in the first place, it should be easier and cheaper to retrofit to a new standard. But if the wiring is not in place because you didn't pay for the QC option, it's probably not going to be easy or cheap to add on. Anyway, the bottom line is that the real issue is not about whether CHAdeMO is going to be a standard or not. The real issue is whether your car is equipped for QC wiring already or not.

Even if you don't need QC now, QC is going to increase the flexibility of your range. That makes it better for the resale value for your car. It also solves the range problem, not just from the standpoint of actual range needed, but it solves the problem of gradual reduced range as the car's battery ages. For example, let's say 5 years from now, your battery capacity is reduced to 70% of its original capacity. Without the QC option, you're limited to driving your car on much shorter trips than before, therefore, the resale value of your car plummets to nothing. But if QC stations becomes ubiquitous, and your car has QC option, people won't care too much if your battery has 70% reduced capacity, because the car still remains useful as long as QC stations are everywhere for them to plug in.

Some may argue that L2 public stations are good enough and QC is not needed. Well, it makes a big difference if you're using L2 on a 6.6kw charger as opposed to using L2 on the currently limited 3.3kw charger. Twice as much difference. So maybe you won't need QC as much if you have a 6.6KW on-board charger. But if you only have a 3.3kw on-board charger like we have now, it makes the QC option look a lot more attractive because your other main charging option is already a pretty lame 3.3kw. It may not look lame now, but when 6.6kw or 7.2kw or 9.6 kw chargers come out, 3.3kw will look pretty lame. But if your car is equipped with QC on top of 3.3kw, the focus/selling point is going to be on the QC, then all of a sudden it's not so lame anymore.

For all the reasons above, the $700 for the QC option sounds pretty good, even if you don't plan to sell your Leaf any time soon. Even if it allows you to make good use of your Leaf for a couple of extra years down the road before you have to upgrade to something better, those couple of extra years of use is definitely worth the $700 investment today.

To many people, the real sustainability of EVs is not so much in what range their batteries can deliver, but more importantly, how prolific public charging stations will become. And to follow up on that, how quickly charging can take place. If there are enough public charging stations around, and especially enough QC public charging stations around, you don't even need a 100 or 200 mile range battery. A 50 mile range battery may even be adequate if you can replenish it in 15 minutes when you make a stop.

The fact that 95% of buyers opted for the QC option on their Leaf is testament to their buy-in of this vision.

I would use the following analogy. Maybe not the best, but I think it brings the message across. Years ago, it seems like having a computer to do things is good enough, even without any connection. Then dial-up modem connection is desired to have on the computer to connect for email and websites. Nowaday, nobody would want to buy a computer without an Ethernet (and wifi) connection. Of course, the analogy here is the computer is your car. The modem connection is your L2. The Ethernet connection is your QC.
 
Volusiano,
Thanks for the explanation. This has helped my decision enormously. I guess the bottom line for me is $$$.

If I could still order QC as a $700 option, maybe I would. But I can't on a 2012. And I need a 2012 in cold, Tier 3 Colorado (for the cold weather package). And I'm not really interested in the other options that an SL brings with it. So, for me, QC=$2K, and that's too much for me.

On top of the $$$, the uncertainty around the standard, the availability of charging stations, and the electric car market itself, I'd rather hold that $2K for what comes. Hell, I may use it as the seed money for the next gen car in 3-5 years!

Anyone else have thoughts about why they chose the SV over the SL (or vice versa)?
 
I opted for the 2011 SV to save $1700, since I did not plan to use QC and don't plan to resell my Leaf either. Glad I saved the money. For the very occasional time when Leaf plus L2 won't cut it, I can always take my ICE vehicle. By the time there is a good QC infrastructure (if one develops) in 5 years, it may be getting close to the time to buy the next gen EV.
 
Valid point. And Nissan should have left it a $700 option, because the points made by those questioning the QC feature are also valid.

"if QC stations becomes ubiquitous" "If there are enough public charging stations around, and especially enough QC public charging stations around"
Very, very big "if", and for many of us it's clear that QC charging stations are not here and are not going to be here for years to come - if ever. Useless features do not improve resale value, paying for them is money pissed away. Many of us would like to have the other SL features, but with the useless QC jacking up the cost to move to an SL by 50%, we'll stay with the SV.

Volusiano said:
It's important to not confuse that the QC option is $2K more. The $2K more between SL and SV includes more than just the QC option. The QC option is only $700 in the 2011 model.
 
Volusiano said:
Even if you don't need QC now, QC is going to increase the flexibility of your range. That makes it better for the resale value for your car. It also solves the range problem, not just from the standpoint of actual range needed, but it solves the problem of gradual reduced range as the car's battery ages. For example, let's say 5 years from now, your battery capacity is reduced to 70% of its original capacity. Without the QC option, you're limited to driving your car on much shorter trips than before, therefore, the resale value of your car plummets to nothing. But if QC stations becomes ubiquitous, and your car has QC option, people won't care too much if your battery has 70% reduced capacity, because the car still remains useful as long as QC stations are everywhere for them to plug in.
I hate to be a spoiler, but I doubt that QC stations will become ubiquitous. For them to become widespread, the economics must make sense so they can spread beyond government and other institutional players. But who should install them and for what reasons? Businesses who want to attract EV customers or polish their green credentials with install L2 stations. They are cheap (under $1000 a piece) and they accomplish everything the business wants to accomplish. No need to invest extra dollars in something that doesn't provide a decent return on investment. I think the Achilles heel of L3 is that it is not good for the batteries we currently have. Owners will only charge L3 when they absolutely have to, so even if a business wanted to invest money in providing L3 stations, the customer base just wouldn't be there. The result would be high pricing and even fewer customers. First we need either batteries that can take the high current coming from L3 or cheap batteries that nobody cares about when they deteriorate. Neither is around the corner.
 
I don't know if this is still the case, but originally you had to have the QC port in order to
get into the EV project, and the QC port only came on the SL version. Once in the EV project
you got a free Blink EVSE and a $700 check to pay for the QC port. So the SL turned out to
be cheaper than the SV. (about $1000 cheaper for me because my AV quote was high)
 
I went with the SV. The chances of QC stations appearing where I live (95 miles from the nearest freeway) is so close to zero it isn't worth considering. The only reason to get a QC port would be resale value but my inclination is to just keep the car for decades, replacing the battery pack as needed. The only thing on the $2050 SL package that I wanted was the cargo cover and that is available as an accessory on the SV.

Perhaps I will suffer from "range envy" in a few years when newer, fancier, EVs are available. I guess I'll find out.
 
The key for me is a wire connection that will support high current, regardless of the port. If you are in the EV project you get $700 back.
 
Honestly, QC port works the best for larger cities over a large area. Most everyone operates "within" their metropolitian area for work and other business. If your metro area is only 18,000 people there isn't a need to go over 100 miles. But if you lived in a sprawl metro area like Dallas-Fort Worth (where I live), Houston, New York, Chicago, etc. It makes a huge difference. 100 miles from my house doesn't get me to north fort worth and back or north dallas and back, thats excluding all the suburbs and growing areas that are even farther and all within the same metro area. I can't cross DFW without a quick charge unless I wait 5 hours for a level 2, use an ICE car or just don't go. Without QC I can't visit my sister or brother in law..yet they all live in the same metro area, so at that point, it makes perfect sense.

P.S. once you drive a Leaf you will NEVER want to go back to an ICE car...I try to find ways to use the Leaf even beyond range because I don't want to use the ICE car.
 
When I registered in April last year I opted for the SV because it was less expensive. A year later I could not order a 2011 model. Up until a week ago I could not order, but ordering just opened up in NH so I am now considering the cost of the SV over the SL again and trying to figure out how I can justify the additional cost. QC port, HomeLink, rear view monitor, solar panel. The home link would be handy when I get into a new home in GA but no QC infrastructure here or in GA as far as I know.

FWIW... I am inclined now to go ahead with my original intent to get the SV. I am also inclined to wait until I can get moved to GA for what amounts to an additonal $2600 in incentives.
 
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