Is it possible to "break" a socket--no breaker tripped...

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

I picked up my Leaf today. I am using only the trickle charger. I have a single 15 amp circuit in my garage (I guess? I have no idea because the electrician didn't label well!), previously with a small box freezer plugged into it, without problem.

I connected everything up and as soon as the actual charging started the socket went dead. Obviously, a thrown breaker.

So, I go to the basement, check out my breakers. All are perfect. I then turned off the entire house, turned it back on, then the same for each individual breaker. At this time nothing was plugged into the garage socket except for a small lamp on a long extension cord to the basement, so I could see which circuit it was (many are labelled, helpfully, as "lights"). I know the lamp works, I know the cord works (tested immediately prior).

No matter which breaker I touch now that socket is dead. I then found a bathroom breaker (as a test) and its GFCI trips within a second of the charger kicking in. That's fine, it's a bathroom. I now have the car charging via an extension cable from the family room. I don't know if this is kosher or not but it's working for now.

My conclusion as a non-electrician is that either:
1) I destroyed the breaker, despite it not tripping, and now it is non-functional no matters its positions
2) I destroyed the light socket. I have installed these before and realize that destroying one would only occur from tons of extra current melting something and/or causing a fire, which leads me to think 1) happened.

House is 7 years old on a 200 AMP panel. Thanks for any tips!

I took the cover off the socket and it's the white wire, which I think is 15 amps, with yellow for 20.

I am guessing next step is to take my multimeter out of storage and figure out which of the breakers in my basement are broken. Then find a different circuit for my freezer... I'm not sure how many watts it pulls but I bet it's more than 3 amps X 120 v or 360 watts

 

[TonyWilliams]

EDIT: MEA CULPA.

I had you confused with another guy.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=225179#p225179" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sorry,

Tony

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

GET AN ELECTRICIAN LIKE EVERYBODY TOLD YOU ON THE OTHER THREAD :?

I didn't create another thread...

Anyway, this stuff isn't really rocket science, just looking for some pointers, not re-wiring a house or even putting in a new circuit

 

[davewill]

My first thought is that the outlet isn't on a dedicated circuit, and that there's a GFCI outlet on it somewhere. I'd walk around with that lamp (or better a circuit tester) and see if any other outlets are dead (and look for that GFCI). In my last house, the downstairs bathroom and most of the outdoor outlets were all fed off a GFCI in the second floor master bath. That was a pain in the butt to figure out the first time it tripped...which would happen frequently because my wife used to use her thumb against the outlet as leverage when unplugging her hair dryer, hitting the "test" button on occasion.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

My first thought is that the outlet isn't on a dedicated circuit, and that there's a GFCI outlet on it somewhere. I'd walk around with that lamp (or better a circuit tester) and see if any other outlets are dead (and look for that GFCI). In my last house, the downstairs bathroom and most of the outdoor outlets were all fed off a GFCI in the second floor master bath. That was a pain in the butt to figure out the first time it tripped...which would happen frequently because my wife used to use her thumb against the outlet as leverage when unplugging her hair dryer, hitting the "test" button on occasion.

I wondered if it was connected to the same circuit as the bathroom, which is right next to it (though indoors, obviously), but it didn't seem to be. I will test this theory further, though, as I think it does make sense!

 

[mwalsh]

My first thought is that the outlet isn't on a dedicated circuit, and that there's a GFCI outlet on it somewhere. I'd walk around with that lamp (or better a circuit tester) and see if any other outlets are dead (and look for that GFCI). In my last house, the downstairs bathroom and most of the outdoor outlets were all fed off a GFCI in the second floor master bath. That was a pain in the butt to figure out the first time it tripped...which would happen frequently because my wife used to use her thumb against the outlet as leverage when unplugging her hair dryer, hitting the "test" button on occasion.

+1...there is a GFCI outlet somewhere in that circuit. It could be anywhere in the house - kitchen or bathrooms are likely culprits - or even the garage.

 

[eHelmholtz]

I agree with davewill - the GFCI circuit can often be quite distant and non-intuitive.

 

[ebill3]

But, the Nissan supplied EVSE will not trip a GFCI, or at least mine did not when I was charging at 120 volts.

It is not clear to me what kind of socket the OP has in the garage. At one point, it is called a "light socket". If it is a light socket with a plug adapter screwed in, that would be my first check. Those adapters are not capable of much current.

If a regular three-prong receptacle, then remove the wall plate and carefully check the voltage at the side screw terminals.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

But, the Nissan supplied EVSE will not trip a GFCI, or at least mine did not when I was charging at 120 volts.

It is not clear to me what kind of socket the OP has in the garage. At one point, it is called a "light socket". If it is a light socket with a plug adapter screwed in, that would be my first check. Those adapters are not capable of much current.

If a regular three-prong receptacle, then remove the wall plate and carefully check the voltage at the side screw terminals.

It is a regular three-prong receptacle. May not get a chance to multi-meter until tomorrow morning.

If a GFCI was thrown it was due initially to the charging AND the freezer.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

GOT IT!


It was indeed another GFCI I missed the most obvious one in the house. There is a utility receptable next to the panel itself with a GFCI. I think this GFCI is a bit iffy, actually. I remember when remodeling the basement that sometimes it would fire all the darn time on just a shop vac and sometimes not even reset with no load on it. If it keeps acting up I'll replace it.

Thanks for the tips.

 

[cwerdna]

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=87367#p87367" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; might help, re: GFCIs.

 

[ebill3]

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=87367#p87367 might help, re: GFCIs.

Excellent reference. Thank you.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

Thanks for that GFCI reference.

----

I've unequivocally tracked this wire back to an "exterior basement/lights" circuit. It is a 20 amp breaker. From this breaker is an unlabeled (too short to catch what was normally printed on the wire) short white wire that extends 6" from my box to a receptacle with GFCI right next to electrical panel. From that is a 14-2 gauge wire up to the garage where I tried plugging this in.

14-2 is 15 amps, yet this is a 20 amp breaker. But, that's "safe", presumably because of the GFCI. Seems strange. Unless I replace all wiring with 12-2, I'm wondering what the purpose of that GFCI is--whether I need one. Perhaps it's code for GFCI receptacle if that's immediately next to the panel, similar to bathrooms? If I remove this GFCI receptacle or simply pull the GFCI out of the loop I'll need to downgrade the breaker to 15 amps unless I re-run the wiring (and it's behind some finished walls, so probably not going to happen).

Every contact with this panel has been done under permit with an electrical inspection, though it's still possible I did find an actual issue here.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Garage is considered a wet location and requires GFCI. Not sure about basements. Is there a boat door?

 

[wwhitney]

14-2 is 15 amps, yet this is a 20 amp breaker.

That's a violation, change the breaker to 15 amps. Full stop.

Wayne

 

[davewill]

...14-2 is 15 amps, yet this is a 20 amp breaker. But, that's "safe", presumably because of the GFCI. Seems strange. ...

Seems strange to me, too. The GFCI won't protect the wiring from too much current. I'd downgrade the breaker, and either move the freezer off that circuit, or, preferably, go ahead and run another circuit for EV charging. If you decide to run a new EV circuit, do it with heavier wire, and be ready to do 240v L2 charging.

 

[ksnogas2112]

Sorry, no clue. I don't know one end of the plug from the other. However, welcome to Team EV and be sure to place your comma's in the correct spot (alluding to your uid, had a daily calendar from that, was hysterical).

:mrgreen:

Tom

 

[DaveEV]

14-2 is 15 amps, yet this is a 20 amp breaker.

That's a violation, change the breaker to 15 amps. Full stop.

+1. 20A breaker on 15A wire = fire hazard.

GFCI has nothing to do with it.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

Sorry, no clue. I don't know one end of the plug from the other. However, welcome to Team EV and be sure to place your comma's in the correct spot (alluding to your uid, had a daily calendar from that, was hysterical).

:mrgreen:

Tom

Yeah, it's not a bad book

---

I already greased the skids on a move of freezer to another circuit. I may end up running a new circuit, though. I had always thought I'd setup 240 before finishing my basement, but when it was finished earlier this year I thought there's no chance I'll need 240 any time soon, so drywall is up. Some may now have to come down

 

[Deleted member 3147]

FYI, there is an easy way to tell the difference between a 120V 150A (NEMA 5-15) outlet and a 120V 20A (NEMA 5-20) outlet. Looking at the face with the ground hole down, if the left slot has an additional horizontal slot coming off it ("T" shape), it's 20A, otherwise 15A. The 20A plug rotates that pin 90% and requires the horizontal slot and the "T" slot will accept either a 15A or 20A plug.