Is your LEAF solar-powered, or will it be at some point?

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
More generally, conversations on whether or not to install PV usually include the "What is the payback time?" question

This "payback time" conversation needs to be framed differently, with the idea that a PV system is an investment, and that you should be looking at the return on that investment in the same way that you would be looking at the return on a bond or some other equity.

Here's how I calculate it.

After rebates and taxes, the cost of my solar system and car charging dock will be around $25,000. The value of my house increases by $25,000, although my property taxes do not increase, so I have really moved a chunk of my money from one asset class into another asset class.

What is the return on this new asset?

If my calculations prove correct, I will be eliminating $150 a month in electric bills and also generating enough electricity to replace the $150 a month I would spend on gas with a 40 mpg car.

That translates into an 14.4% return on my investment, far better than anything else I can earn.

But wait. The $3,600 a year I am earning is equivalent to tax free income.

And it's protected against inflation, because I expect the price of gas and electricity to continue to rise faster than inflation.

So I have an inflation-proof return of 14.4% tax-free.

I just wish I could find more investments like this.

There are some caveats here. At some point, I will have to replace the inverter, just as I have to replace other major appliances, water heater, furnace, etc. I might have to replace the solar panels, but I don't have to duplicate the labor that went to installing the brackets and wiring or the costs for upgrading my electrical service and supply panel. At some point twenty or thirty years from now, I might switch out panels to improve the output of my system. But in my mind, these are now home maintenance costs, rather than some cost that needs to calculated as part of a payback. Does anybody ask what the payback is when you buy a new refrigerator after your old one has died?

And part of the savings comes from using time of use rates where SCE pays me substantially more to generate power during their peak hours than they charge me for power during the super off-peak period when I am charging my car.
 
Aeolus, That is the most compelling ROI analysis i've seen. Congrats and Thanks..

Tax-free & Inflation-proof. Magical words for the times we live in.

Really, the Federal and local incentives make PV systems a no-brainer for EV aficionados.
 
Aeolus said:
More generally, conversations on whether or not to install PV usually include the "What is the payback time?" question
This "payback time" conversation needs to be framed differently, with the idea that a PV system is an investment . . . So I have an inflation-proof return of 14.4% tax-free . . . [but] There are some caveats here. . .
+1 Very well summarized! :!:
 
I've also been researching this a bit since seeing one in action (see "A few photos from today's event" in this post), and found that the panel adds almost all of the post-rebate investment back to the value of the house.

Perhaps this is only true while utilities are offering high rates for selling to the grid (until 2020 here in WA), but this does makes sense; in any case, I rarely (as in never :)) see the increase in resale value of the home deducted from the payback period calculations. Even a partial value to compensate for the fact that you don't know when you will move next would seem to be in order.

Unfortunately my house faces West, so my roof slants east/west, and we have tall trees on the property--perhaps something I'll get right next time! :)

-Brad
 
I received my true-up for the year from PG&E today. The total electrical consumption for the year was $-8.54. This includes
charging our Leaf nightly since April 26. That means that the over 5K miles driven in the Leaf have been FREE! Previous gas cost was $200/month, previous electric bill was $222/month. EV + PV saves over $400/month, cleanly!
 
ElectricVehicle said:
For those who don't have an option of installing their own solar panels for various reasons like cost, apartment, home ownwer's association, planning to move soon, college student, etc. you can always power your LEAF from the grid and purchase renewable energy certificates to replace the power you've used with zero emissions electricity.

LEAF + Renewable Energy Certificates = ZERO emissions.

LEAF + Solar or Wind = ZERO emissions.

Renewable Energy Certificates
US DOE Renewable Energy Certificates (RECs) Retail
Renewable Energy Certificates (RECs)

There are a number of 100% new renewable options that costs less than $0.01/kWh or in LEAF terms, that's $0.003 (3/10 of 1 cent per mile at 3 miles/kWh) or less per mile!

ElectricVehicle,

I don't understand how these certificates are used. Are they some form of "currency" and who accepts these? Can you provide an example of how it's used?

Thx.
 
Leafittome said:
I received my true-up for the year from PG&E today. The total electrical consumption for the year was $-8.54. This includes
charging our Leaf nightly since April 26. That means that the over 5K miles driven in the Leaf have been FREE! Previous gas cost was $200/month, previous electric bill was $222/month. EV + PV saves over $400/month, cleanly!

Very cool, congrats! I hope to have a similar report in six months when my true-up happens. I have SCE here in Orange County. I have $350 in credits banked already and I expect to have about $400 in credits after this month. Then I'll have six "winter" months until true-up in March of next year. I fully expect to have a similar outcome to yours. Very cool, isn't it?
 
Folks, Got a question regarding your PV system.. Should one consider a cost for for maintenance/repair as part of the cost/payback equation? How much?

Do/should they offer or should one consider a maintenance contract?

Thanks!
 
Leafittome said:
I received my true-up for the year from PG&E today. The total electrical consumption for the year was $-8.54. This includes
charging our Leaf nightly since April 26. That means that the over 5K miles driven in the Leaf have been FREE! Previous gas cost was $200/month, previous electric bill was $222/month. EV + PV saves over $400/month, cleanly!

Wow, that's awesome. How much capacity do you have and I assume you have a south-facing slope on your roof?
 
hpage said:
Folks, Got a question regarding your PV system.. Should one consider a cost for for maintenance/repair as part of the cost/payback equation? How much?

Do/should they offer or should one consider a maintenance contract?

Thanks!

Maintenance and repair have been a non-issue for us in over 4.5 years of use. Any issues that crop up post-installation are covered by warranty and should be addressed by your installer right away. Once those are settled, PV systems rarely need maintenance other than cleaning with soap and water occasionally, and even this is optional.
 
bradleygibson said:
Leafittome said:
I received my true-up for the year from PG&E today. The total electrical consumption for the year was $-8.54. This includes
charging our Leaf nightly since April 26. That means that the over 5K miles driven in the Leaf have been FREE! Previous gas cost was $200/month, previous electric bill was $222/month. EV + PV saves over $400/month, cleanly!

Wow, that's awesome. How much capacity do you have and I assume you have a south-facing slope on your roof?

System is 4.3Kw DC, optimized for a southwestern exposure to get the most production from peak time, ie; selling back power to the utility in the afternoon hours during spring/summer. We're credited with .33Kwh, while we pay .11Kwh off-peak when we charge the Leaf.
 
hpage said:
Folks, Got a question regarding your PV system.. Should one consider a cost for for maintenance/repair as part of the cost/payback equation? How much?

Do/should they offer or should one consider a maintenance contract?

Thanks!

The inverter is the biggest maintenance item, typically needing replacement every 12 years or so. They normally come with a 10 year warranty. The other thing to watch is the roof condition, it may need to be replaced, which means having to remove the panels and reinstall them at some point.

As for a maintenance contract, no, I would not consider such a thing useful.
 
Cleaning contract YES, maintenance NO.

It is so dry here in So Cal that we need to have the panels washed at least three times in the summer. In the winter the rains keep them clean.

You can lose 10 to 20% of your production when the PV panels are dirty.

We have two smaller inverters instead of one large unit, easier and less costly if it breaks. Plus if it does break we still have half of a system working.
 
hpage said:
Folks, Got a question regarding your PV system.. Should one consider a cost for for maintenance/repair as part of the cost/payback equation? How much? Do/should they offer or should one consider a maintenance contract?
Thanks!

No and No. My system is guaranteed for 25 years including the micro-inverters. Other people will have to pay around $5K for a new central inverter after ten years or so. And it's very easy to just high-pressure spray the panels with water to clean any dust or debris. I found that I only lose about 500W/day which is about 3% if they are dirty.
 
I just finished my 4.83KWDC microinverter system. Being in the PNW and having a bit of morning shade it's not going to produce the crazy numbers but it'll more than handle my LEAF driving.

http://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/2Kkg31401" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
QueenBee said:
I just finished my 4.83KWDC microinverter system. Being in the PNW and having a bit of morning shade it's not going to produce the crazy numbers but it'll more than handle my LEAF driving.
What is the total cost of this system, including installation, but excluding any rebates?
 
Back
Top