Leaf model S with quick charge package - how to quick charge

[sb123]

Today I bought my leaf model S Quick-charge package.
While purchasing this, I was told that because I am purchasing the Quick-charge package, my car will completely charge within 4 hours as long as I use a 220 V outlet, which is the same as my dryer's outlet.
When I got home, I wanted to charge my car, only to find out that the charging cable/equipment given has only the 110V pins (for regular home outlet), which will take 20 hours..which is that same as the Regular Leaf model S.

I was not told that I will have to install anything in order to utilize the quick-charge (220 V, which should take 4 hours).

So my question is, was I not given the correct cable, which has the 220 V charging pins or was I lied to/purposely mislead to believe that I can charge my car in four hours.

I feel like I have been cheated and wasted money in order to get the quick-charge option if I cannot charge within 4 hours/have to install something to charge quickly.

Thank you for all your help!

 

[RonDawg]

Unfortunately you were given a lot of wrong info. First, if you want 4 hour charging, you need to invest in a 240 volt EVSE that is capable to delivering a 30 amp current. Some lower priced EVSEs only supply 16 amps, or 20 amps, which will work fine and faster than 120 volt charging, but will not take full advantage of your car's upgraded built-in charger.

Second, the 240 volt EVSE is NOT standard equipment on the Leaf as it is with a few other EVs like the Fit (but installation is still not included). A few dealers may include one in the deal (with or without installation) but it is not normally an included item.

Since you have a dryer outlet, you can have your car's OEM EVSE converted by EVSE upgrade to charge at up to 20 amps for around $300. (Corrected as per cwerdna's info)

Third, the "quick-charge" actually refers to the CHAdeMO port to the left of the charge port you would use for 120/240 volt charging. It can replenish your Leaf in 30 minutes or less, but requires a CHAdeMO charging station which is large and quite expensive, and only found in public stations, at this time mostly at Nissan dealers.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
Per the specs at http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/channels/us-united-states-nissan-models-leaf/presskits/us-2013-nissan-leaf-press-kit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, the charge package gives you "Charge Package: 6.6 kW onboard charger (6 kW output), quick charge port, RearView Monitor".

RonDawg is referring to http://www.evseupgrade.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, run by Ingineer, a well-respected member of MNL. You may as well get it done since you mention you have a dryer outlet. However, you will not get the max charging rate on a 200+ volt outlet even w/that.

Per http://evseupgrade.com/?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, max output is 20 amps at 200+ volts. To charge even faster, one will need an EVSE that can deliverer higher amperage at those voltages than the upgrading your stock L1 EVSE. I believe anything at http://www.pluginamerica.org/accessory-tracker?type=Charge+Station%2C+SAE+J-1772&level=2&nrtl=All" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; that's level 2 and can deliver at least 30 amps will give you the fastest possible charging you can achieve at home.

Charging on J1772 level 2 at any amperage is NOT considered "quick charging".

The other part is the CHAdeMO (http://chademo.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false quick-charge port (the much bigger one on the left, see http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=262630#p262630" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false. You will NOT have one of those chargers at home. They are $15,500 at min (http://nissanqc.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is the cheapest one of these). That port lets you use those faster CHAdeMO chargers which can charge a Leaf from 0 to 80% in 30 mins.

BTW, the diagram at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=262630#p262630" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; might make things more clear. Also, can you update your location info via User Control Panel (near top) > Profile (left side)? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

Whether or not the CHAdeMO port is of any use to you will depend on where you live, drive and commute...

 

[sb123]

Thank you for the help.
I will be talking with the seller tomorrow because she seemed to have no idea about the exact details - she should know that she has been misinforming people...intentionally or not.

As of now, my most viable option seems to be to get a EVSE upgrade for around 300$.
As I understand, although this will not use the full car's potential, it is the best I can get at home. And this will be utilizing the 200+V outlet.
Do you know how long it would take to charge the car with the EVSE upgrade- because I will have to wait 20 hours currently, and that's too much for my purposes.


Thank you for your time and help!

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
Misinformed salespeople aren't surprising. I hope they haven't also misled you about the Leaf's range. That's still going on too. :roll:

I don't know the exact times but http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=296405#p296405" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; might help. I believe 240 volts @ 20 amps is the best you can do w/by getting the stock L1 EVSE upgraded and I think that'd cut the overnight charge time from dead (you wouldn't do that, ordinarily) to below 8 hours.

If you use evseupgrade, make sure you also buy the right adapters, esp. at least a 120 volt adapter (you may need this) and whatever matches what you have at http://evseupgrade.com/?main_page=index&cPath=7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. I noticed the image at http://evseupgrade.com/images/categories/outlet-types.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is scaled too small to be visible on that site.

 

[RonDawg]

I will be talking with the seller tomorrow because she seemed to have no idea about the exact details - she should know that she has been misinforming people...intentionally or not.

Just be glad she didn't get you hooked on the Leaf's "100 mile range" which is totally unrealistic for most people. I hope you weren't anyway.

It is possible that your salesperson has been referring to the EVSE upgrade. However, Nissan's official charger is the one that is made by AeroVironment and that costs a reported $2,000 for "standard" installation. You probably saw your Leaf being charged at one of these at the dealer.

As of now, my most viable option seems to be to get a EVSE upgrade for around 300$.

As I understand, although this will not use the full car's potential, it is the best I can get at home. And this will be utilizing the 200+V outlet.

Do you know how long it would take to charge the car with the EVSE upgrade- because I will have to wait 20 hours currently, and that's too much for my purposes.

The older Leafs like mine took "up to 8 hours" using a 16 amp 240 volt EVSE, so a 20 amp one should do this about 25% faster if your car has the upgraded charger. Also keep in mind that the 4 hour charging ability most benefits you when you're out and about, but are not near a CHAdeMO station. It gives you a boost needed to get to your destination without having to wait as long. The majority Leafers charge at home overnight anyway, so it makes little difference if you need 4 or 6 hours to charge.

Also keep in mind you only need that length of time for a battery whose charge is so low that the car goes into "Turtle" mode. Most Leafers don't regularly let their charge drop that low, and doing that regularly is not recommended anyway as it tends to shorten battery life.

 

[cwerdna]

http://sfbayleafs.org/news/2013/01/2013-nissan-leaf-product-highlights/attachment/13leafproduct5/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; shows the supposed benefits of the 6 kW onboard charger (assuming you have an EVSE that can deliver ~30 amps at 240 volts). The slide is from the deck at http://sfbayleafs.org/news/2013/01/2013-nissan-leaf-product-highlights/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

(Yeah yeah, we've had a debate here about whether the on-board charger is actually only 6 kW instead of 6.6 kW.)

Again, what's on that slide has NOTHING to do w/"quick charging" nor the CHAdeMO DC quick (fast) charge port. The '11 and '12 Leafs had only a 3.3 kW on-board charger and could also have an optional CHAdeMO DC quick charge port. The '13 Leafs owned by OP has a 6 kW on-board charger and the CHAdeMO port.

 

[LeftieBiker]

There may be a bit of good news with the bad, here. If you don't use a full charge before recharging (which isn't really that healthy for the pack, anyway) it will take less than 20 hours to recharge with 120 volts. I tend to use about 50-70% of the pack's capacity, and to get back to 80% from there takes less than 12 hours. To get to 100% takes much longer, but even 94% (this seems to be the actual figure before the charge progress slows, not some number I randomly used) takes substantially less than 20 hours - I think about 16, but I'm not certain of that. So if you have a 40 mile commute, round trip, you should be able to get back to 80% or 90% much more quickly than you may think. You obviously want to charge faster since you got the QC option, but you should still be able to use the car while waiting for your 240 volt EVSE. It's beginning to look like QC shouldn't be used constantly, so the 240 volt option is your best one for the battery pack's health and reasonable charge times... although I've gotten quite used to "trickle charging", myself.

Another post slipped in while I was writing this one.

 

[planet4ever]

Another way to look at the time to charge is, as LeftieBiker indicated, to compare against the number of miles you expect to drive per day. After you have had the LEAF for a while you will learn how to drive it more efficiently, but these may give you a ballpark idea of what to expect initially:

• The 120v "trickle charge" EVSE that comes with the car will give you roughly 3-4 miles of travel for every hour of charging.
• A 16 amp 240v EVSE will triple that to 10-12 miles per charging hour.
• At 20 amps that might go up to 12-15 miles.
• The fastest you can charge (without using the Quick Charge port) is about 27.5 amps, and for that you will need a 30 amp EVSE. With that you should be able to get somewhere around 18-22 miles per charging hour.
• If you can find a Quick Charge station, you can get something like 50 miles of driving in less than half an hour!

Again, don't take these numbers as gospel. They depend heavily on how, where, and when you drive. (Winter is different from summer, freeways are different from city streets, and speed makes a huge difference.) But if you know how far you are going to travel these should give you a fairly conservative estimate of how long you will need to charge with each of the options available.

Ray

p.s. I'd like to second cwerdna's request that you add Location information to your Profile. It really does help us know what you are up against, like availability - or not - of Quick Charge stations, and winter or summer impacts on mileage, and hence on charging time.

 

[LEAFfan]

^^^
Per the specs at http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/channels/us-united-states-nissan-models-leaf/presskits/us-2013-nissan-leaf-press-kit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, the charge package gives you "Charge Package: 6.6 kW onboard charger (6 kW output), quick charge port, RearView Monitor".

RonDawg is referring to http://www.evseupgrade.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, run by Ingineer, a well-respected member of MNL. You may as well get it done since you mention you have a dryer outlet. However, you will not get the max charging rate on a 200+ volt outlet even w/that.

Per http://evseupgrade.com/?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, max output is 20 amps at 200+ volts. To charge even faster, one will need an EVSE that can deliverer higher amperage at those voltages than the upgrading your stock L1 EVSE. I believe anything at http://www.pluginamerica.org/accessory-tracker?type=Charge+Station%2C+SAE+J-1772&level=2&nrtl=All" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; that's level 2 and can deliver at least 30 amps will give you the fastest possible charging you can achieve at home.

Charging on J1772 level 2 at any amperage is NOT considered "quick charging".

The other part is the CHAdeMO (http://chademo.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false quick-charge port (the much bigger one on the left, see http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=262630#p262630" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false. You will NOT have one of those chargers at home. They are $15,500 at min (http://nissanqc.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is the cheapest one of these). That port lets you use those faster CHAdeMO chargers which can charge a Leaf from 0 to 80% in 30 mins.

That % is for '11-'12s. The OP has a 2013 which will charge to an actual 90% in 30 mins.

BTW, the diagram at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=262630#p262630" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; might make things more clear. Also, can you update your location info via User Control Panel (near top) > Profile (left side)? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

Whether or not the CHAdeMO port is of any use to you will depend on where you live, drive and commute...

 

[MikeD]

sb123: As a 2011 SL Leaf owner who normally needs to only charge to 80% once a day and knowing what I know now -- if I were buying a new (2013) Leaf (and did not have my current EVSE), I would:

1) Buy an S trim line w/ Quick Charge package (I don't need anything beyond that).

2) Buy a "direct wired" (for maximum safety) wall mounted EVSE, which is robust and designed for daily and convenient use, and keep the portable 120v Nissan EVSE (which is not designed for daily use) for its intended use as an emergency charging station (not expected, so kept inside my house -- same as my spare tire) and as a backup for my main EVSE should it ever fail to charge.

3) Buy either a "16a" EVSE or a "30a" EVSE where the output is selectable to ~16a (like the Siemens VersiCharge), because there is plenty of time to charge overnight (95% of the time < 3 hrs for me). If I have to upgrade my service or my panel for safe operation -- I'D DO IT IN A HEARTBEAT (so to speak)!!

 

[EVDRIVER]

sb123: As a 2011 SL Leaf owner who normally needs to only charge to 80% once a day and knowing what I know now -- if I were buying a new (2013) Leaf (and did not have my current EVSE), I would:

1) Buy an S trim line w/ Quick Charge package (I don't need anything beyond that).

2) Buy a "direct wired" (for maximum safety) wall mounted EVSE, which is robust and designed for daily and convenient use, and keep the portable 120v Nissan EVSE (which is not designed for daily use) for its intended use as an emergency charging station (not expected, so kept inside my house -- same as my spare tire) and as a backup for my main EVSE should it ever fail to charge.

3) Buy either a "16a" EVSE or a "30a" EVSE where the output is selectable to ~16a (like the Siemens VersiCharge), because there is plenty of time to charge overnight (95% of the time < 3 hrs for me). If I have to upgrade my service or my panel for safe operation -- I'D DO IT IN A HEARTBEAT (so to speak)!!

Predictable but I give you credit for being less obvious and transparent each time

 

[fooljoe]

I don't think anybody has mentioned this yet, but if you intend to use your dryer outlet to charge then the EVSE upgrade is basically your only choice (ok you could also get an LCS-25 from Clipper Creek, or a Tesla UMC modified to J1772 with a 30 amp adapter, or open-EVSE...)

Your Leaf can charge at up to 30 amps, but your "30 amp" dryer outlet can actually only deliver 24 amps continuously without being in violation of code (aka the 80% rule). So if you were thinking about investing more for an EVSE capable of 30 amps to charge at the car's full potential, you'd then also have to have an electrician either upgrade the wiring on that dryer circuit or install a new, 40 amp or greater circuit. In other words doing that would really not be worth it, as the difference in charging time is not that significant.

 

[MikeD]

EVDRIVER: Could you explain exactly what you mean, please?

 

[Petecomp1]

Charge times with '13 SV, 6KW, A/V EVSE, 28 amp (all SOC's dashboard):
30% to 80%: 1.75 hours (1 hour, 45 minutes)
50% to 80%: 1.0 hours (this is my "normal" charge for my daily commute)
50% to 100%: 2.5 hours (rarely do this).
I've never had it below 30% and recommend you do the same.
This works well for me because I can run (15 miles) home for lunch and be 80% charged in a jiffy. For me, the A/V EVSE was well worth the cost ($1,200). YMMV.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
To be clear for the OP, I believe by A/V EVSE, you're referring to http://www.pluginamerica.org/accessories/aerovironment-evse-rs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I don't think anybody has mentioned this yet, but if you intend to use your dryer outlet to charge then the EVSE upgrade is basically your only choice (ok you could also get an LCS-25 from Clipper Creek, or a Tesla UMC modified to J1772 with a 30 amp adapter, or open-EVSE...)

Your Leaf can charge at up to 30 amps, but your "30 amp" dryer outlet can actually only deliver 24 amps continuously without being in violation of code (aka the 80% rule). So if you were thinking about investing more for an EVSE capable of 30 amps to charge at the car's full potential, you'd then also have to have an electrician either upgrade the wiring on that dryer circuit or install a new, 40 amp or greater circuit. In other words doing that would really not be worth it, as the difference in charging time is not that significant.

LEAF with the 6kw charger draws 27.5 amps at 240V.

 

[SteveInSeattle]

The shame in this incident is not just the misinformation, but the buyer has no need for the QC option that he paid for. Everything we've been discussing has nothing to do with QC.

 

[davewill]

The shame in this incident is not just the misinformation, but the buyer has no need for the QC option that he paid for. Everything we've been discussing has nothing to do with QC.

The 6kW charger upgrade is bundled with the QC port into a single package, so if he wanted one, he had to get the other.

 

[sb123]

Hello Everyone,
Thanks for the advise. I went back to the dealer and they are advising me to buy an 'adapter' using which I will be able to charge my car using my laundary outlet using the 'default' charger which came with my car (that is the 110V charger). Is there any such adapter available in the market and how much will it cost? Will that be reliable and safe to use inside home Garage?
Thanks for your advise.