LEAF or RAV4EV

[shade]

Hello-

Thanks to all for this forum. I've learned a lot. I recently rented a Leaf, loved it, and am seriously considering it. I am also looking at the RAV4EV. I saw recently that someone asked about the tipping point for folks between the Leaf and the Volt. I am wondering if there is a similar group out there that considered the EVRAV and the Leaf and ended up going one way or the other. Any thoughts on that would be helpful, as I am trying to decide between the two. Thanks again.

Soon to be EV driver-

DB

 

[cwerdna]

Where are you located?

Can you update your location info via User Control Panel (near top) > Profile (left side)? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

There is http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; to discuss the Rav4 EV, besides the 1 thread here.

What's your daily commute/driving distance needs? How much of it at highway speeds? Any charging at work/stops in the day?

 

[LEAFfan]

DB, the RAV4EV is sold only in CA. If you're in any other state, I would definitely pass. Also, I would only lease a LEAF for two years if you aren't in CA.

 

[RonDawg]

It's not impossible to get a RAV-4 EV outside of California, as a few people here have done so. But you cannot take delivery in CA, otherwise you will get socked for CA registration as well as local sales tax (which can be in excess of 10% in some areas) as well as any other taxes and fees due back home.

There's also some controversy about servicing, and whether you can take it to any US Toyota dealer, or only ones certified to work on the RAV-4 EV's Tesla-supplied powertrain (and those are only at certain CA Toyota dealers).

Now if the OP is in California, the above is moot. But if the OP is leasing, the OP should know that unlike with Nissan, Toyota does not pass on the $7500 Federal EV credit to the consumer. Some 2 year leases do end up with a superior cost/mile over some 3 year ones even with the $2500 CVRP rebate factored in.

 

[shade]

Thanks everybody. I am on the central California coast. I have questions about servicing too. I'll ask the dealer. There is a local Leaf dealer here in town, so that is a huge plus. My daily commute is about 18 miles, if I run some errands.

 

[cwerdna]

Thanks everybody. I am on the central California coast. I have questions about servicing too. I'll ask the dealer. There is a local Leaf dealer here in town, so that is a huge plus. My daily commute is about 18 miles, if I run some errands.

If your commute is only 18 miles/day total or 36 miles/day total, even the Leaf should be no issue. Rav4 EV is overkill unless you need the carrying capacity or want the performance.

You planning to lease or buy? The Rav4 EV lease deals are pretty expensive/lousy looking.

For your city, do you mean "Carpinteria, CA"? I had never heard of that city nor the one in your location info, until now.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Thanks everybody. I am on the central California coast. I have questions about servicing too. I'll ask the dealer. There is a local Leaf dealer here in town, so that is a huge plus. My daily commute is about 18 miles, if I run some errands.

Yes, this sounds perfect for a LEAF. Unless you need more power, room, speed, range, etc, the more expensive Rav4 is great.

What do you need to transport? Just yourself?

The EPA ratings for the two cars don't do justice to how far apart they are in range. Both cars have average EPA ratings between 80% charge and 100%, however the 100% EPA ratings are 84 for the LEAF and 113 for the Rav4. In reality, the LEAF can go 84 miles at a constant 65mph on level roadways with no heater, and the Rav4 EV can go 142 miles in the same parameters.

 

[TonyWilliams]

For your city, do you mean "Carpinteria, CA"? I had never heard of that city nor the one in your location info, until now.

Santa Barbara area.

 

[shade]

It's actually 18 miles round trip for work. I do pick up the kids, but when I rented the Leaf it seemed like there was plenty of room. The range on the RAV is appealing, only because I occasionally go north and sound (San Luis and Oxnard) and it would be pushing it with an 84 mile range. The range isn't a deal breaker though.

I'll have to research the leasing on a RAV, as it was mentioned that they are expensive and lousy. I've never leased a car (always bought), but I'd like to lease an EV.

Thanks again everyone. This forum is amazing.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I would buy, rather than lease, a Rav4 EV. Here's the current deals:

http://myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1691#p1691" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[shade]

I think that the $10K in cash and 0%APR ended today, April 1, unfortunately, so I'll have to see what Toyota decides to do tomorrow (if anything). If the incentives go away, that might make my mind up for me.

 

[RegGuheert]

The EPA ratings for the two cars don't do justice to how far apart they are in range. Both cars have average EPA ratings between 80% charge and 100%, however the 100% EPA ratings are 84 for the LEAF and 113 for the Rav4. In reality, the LEAF can go 84 miles at a constant 65mph on level roadways with no heater, and the Rav4 EV can go 142 miles in the same parameters.

Tony, does this say that the RAV4 EV is better optimized for driving at highway speeds than the low speeds and stop-and-go driving that are emphasized in the EPA tests? I think it is clear the LEAF is more optimized for the lower speeds, particularly the 2013 model.

 

[TonyWilliams]

The EPA ratings for the two cars don't do justice to how far apart they are in range. Both cars have average EPA ratings between 80% charge and 100%, however the 100% EPA ratings are 84 for the LEAF and 113 for the Rav4. In reality, the LEAF can go 84 miles at a constant 65mph on level roadways with no heater, and the Rav4 EV can go 142 miles in the same parameters.

Tony, does this say that the RAV4 EV is better optimized for driving at highway speeds than the low speeds and stop-and-go driving that are emphasized in the EPA tests? I think it is clear the LEAF is more optimized for the lower speeds, particularly the 2013 model.

There are a number of variables:

700 pound heavier Rav4
Inductive motor
Different power output

The weasel answer is "I don't know".

 

[TonyWilliams]

I think that the $10K in cash and 0%APR ended today, April 1, unfortunately, so I'll have to see what Toyota decides to do tomorrow (if anything). If the incentives go away, that might make my mind up for me.

Extended to 4/30/2013

 

[Elephanthead]

I would buy the RAV 4. I don't live in California though so I have a leaf.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I would buy the RAV 4. I don't live in California though so I have a leaf.

The Rav4 is available in all the lower 48 states for a one way shipping charge of $500-$1500.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

without knowing your financial situation, its really difficult to give you a fair evaluation. Some people here struggle to pay for these cars but do so knowing that long term TCO is good but can take 5-7 years to realize which means range degradation and transportation need has to be considered.

it sounds like your basic transportation need would be covered by the LEAF for several years.

considering the statement above, I would lease in your case.

1) lease rates are phenomenal right now. do the 3 year, get the all the money you can.

2) EV's are not mature. prices will go down, ranges will go up, selection will be mind boggling 2 or 3 years from now. I would not recommend buying to anyone for any reason simply because i fully believe that cars with the RAV's range will be available in a more acceptable format for much less money and will be refined.

The RAV imho is probably the best chance at mainstream acceptance but due to current incentives and range only. it is very much a "thrown together at the last minute" car and it shows. Look at this car compared to other Toyota offerings. almost hard to believe that it made it thru Toyota's QC dept. But can you blame them? its a 2600 car run...

right now, EVs are "gateway" cars. nothing out there that is really compelling. all have their good points but none seem to have most of them other than Tesla and if you can afford that, then you wouldnt be here. LEAF is a great start but its not the finish line either.

so my choice; get the LEAF. you dont need the extra range. you have a much better chance of getting DCFC's near you than you would of getting 80 KW AC chargers. too bad that Nissan has not been more public about where all these 500 chargers will be deployed. betting it would help boost sales in certain areas if we knew today where we can charge tomorrow. guessing they are having problems getting 500 hands in the air right now...

 

[doug401]

I have one of each.... well, I will in a few hours. Delivery of RAV4 EV to Washington state this afternoon.

You WILL be happy with either. The Nissan lease deals are excellent, but so is the $10,000 cash, 0% on the RAV4 EV. The quick charge level 3 on the Leaf is very nice, but the 9.6 Kwh 240V at home is of higher value to me. Our local level 3 public infrastructure is considered advanced compared to other areas of the country, yet it is failing. It will get worse before it gets better. Crowded, Iced, broken, vandalized. It will be years before infrastructure catches up with demand. The golden age of free public charging has already come and gone. AV and Blink, please start charging fees to help build a larger reliable network. That is were the RAV4 EV shines. With its range increase, I can bypass the Level 3 stations altogether for my longer trips.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I have one of each.... well, I will in a few hours. Delivery of RAV4 EV to Washington state this afternoon.

You WILL be happy with either. The Nissan lease deals are excellent, but so is the $10,000 cash, 0% on the RAV4 EV. The quick charge level 3 on the Leaf is very nice, but the 9.6 Kwh 240V at home is of higher value to me. Our local level 3 public infrastructure is considered advanced compared to other areas of the country, yet it is failing. It will get worse before it gets better. Crowded, Iced, broken, vandalized. It will be years before infrastructure catches up with demand. The golden age of free public charging has already come and gone. AV and Blink, please start charging fees to help build a larger reliable network. That is were the RAV4 EV shines. With its range increase, I can bypass the Level 3 stations altogether for my longer trips.

i really doubt that but no matter, the RAV is a great choice (since there is no other real choice) and does provide more utility over the LEAF for hauling, towing, etc.

as far as the quick charge network goes. not sure how it could get worse. I only see it getting better but mostly because its starting from next to nothing really. some hiccups from Blink that has taken way more time than was really needed to resolve (and that is still not certain) but it has helped me.

http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2013/04/mar-2013-drive-report.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[doug401]

not sure how it could get worse. l

Well... I guess I hope your right. But that is an interesting admission coming from you. I AM a big supporter of public charging just like you. But, just like like you, I am very disappointed. Recently It appears AV is lowering themselves to Blink's level. My primary L3 is in Burlington. It allows me to get to Anacortes and back with a quick pit stop. It's been off line for a month now. WOW... a month!!! I've been such a positive supporter over the last 2 years. Remember the Ecotality guy at the "Revenge Premiere" at the UW? How the 1st L3 blink will go in Seattle by Dec 2011? BS. Remember when I planned an all day trip to Bellingham to try the 1st L3 in the state, only the spot was iced by a Jeep Cherokee all day? Or when I attempted to go to Leavenworth, only to end the trip in Skykomish because AV doesn't know if their sites are functioning or not.

As far as being crowed, like at the local Seattle L3's, that's a good problem I guess. Lots of new Leaf drivers out there. But that is why I think it will get worse... Overload

I read your blog by the way... keep it up