Looking for Leaf owner in hilly or mountain areas

[LeafRsearch]

Hello,
I am try find out more information on how the Leaf does in hilly or mountain areas. If you live in such areas please post how your Leaf has been doing. I am interested in what effect these kind of areas have on range and how often you choose to charge? Thank you.

 

[91040]

Here is a great place to start-

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=3512" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[abasile]

Indeed, one year on, my LEAF is still going strong. My posts here have been limited lately due to time constraints, but I'm driving down and back up a 5000' "hill" quite frequently now...

While the LEAF has plenty of available power on mountain grades, I do suspect that for battery longevity it is best to drive conservatively, i.e., not fly up the 5000' mountain climb every day at a high, continuous discharge rate.

The only real negative is that, at almost 13,000 miles, my LEAF's tires aren't looking too good. The shoulders on all four tires are completely bald. Hopefully I can get by with them through the dry months (until Nov.). But we normally do wear our tires quickly; replacing stock tires at less than 20,000 miles is quite common. We look for high wear ratings whenever we buy new tires.

The other thing is that I've found I need to manually stop charging at about 65% or less if I want decent regenerative braking going all the way down the mountain. As has been expressed to Nissan, I really wish the charging timers were flexible enough to support this automatically; currently the only choices are 80% and 100%.

 

[dgpcolorado]

I'm not sure what you're really after but I will say that the biggest surprise for me was how effortlessly the LEAF accelerates up the steep hills where I live. When I let friends drive my car they are amazed as well. The LEAF also handles snow quite well for a two wheel drive car.

Efficiencies of mountain driving depend on what sort it is. Narrow curving roads require more braking and coasting is often unsafe. That affects mileage. I have found that the regen in Eco isn't strong enough to slow the descent of steep hills to safe speeds. In my ICE car I use second gear (of five). The regen in Eco seems to be the equivalent of third gear, so more use of the brake pedal is needed on the steep grades. The steepest hill I have is a hairpin turn with a 14% grade.

I got about 4 miles per kWh in January and am currently getting about 4.5 miles/kWh. I expect that to improve as the weather warms some more. Those are car dash readings. Efficiency measured from the wall is quite a bit lower due to charging losses and preheating.

I see ranges in winter of about 70 to 80 miles in subfreezing temperatures on dry roads, with speeds in the 35 to 60 mph range. Driving in snow or slush would knock that back a lot. Using the cabin heater while driving is unnecessary thanks to preheating and the steering wheel and seat heaters. However, I charge in a garage that doesn't go below freezing so I never have to deal with the reduced capacity of a cold battery. Leaving a car outside overnight in cold temperatures would definitely impact range.

Today I made a 65 mile grocery shopping trip with 2500 feet of elevation change overall (start 7670 feet, maximum 8000 feet, minimum 5750 feet) in temperatures from the 30s to 50s). I charged to 100% and ended up with three bars on the fuel gauge, so I had considerable range left. Mileage on the console for the trip was 4.7 miles/kWh.

I charge when needed and not every day. I can easily make two 18 mile trips—down a 1000 foot hill—to town and back on an 80% charge so I don't bother to charge in between them. I generally charge at midday when the sun is shining so I can use my solar power directly. If it is cloudy I sometimes charge at night. When making a long grocery run I charge to 80% the day before and then to 100% shortly before I leave. But my car mostly sits between 30% to 80%. If I come home with one bar or less I charge for an hour to get the charge back up to three bars or so then let it go to my usual midday timer for the rest. I use a Level 2 240V, 16 Amp EVSE from EVSE Upgrade, as you can see from my signature below and rarely have to charge for more than two to three hours at a time. There are no public charging stations where I live; the only level 2 EVSE within 90 miles is the one in my garage.

Don't know if any of that really answers your questions. In general the LEAF works fine in mountains but one takes a hit on mileage because one doesn't get back all of the energy used to climb a hill when going back down. And curvy roads use a bit more power than straight ones. On the other hand, my rural county has only one stoplight, so stop and go traffic is almost nonexistent.

 

[Caracalover]

I live at 1800 feet in elevation. When I leave home, it is always downhill, so I rarely charge to 100%, so I can gain energy when I need to slow down, rather than use my brake pads.

I just passed the 15,000 mile mark, and did the one year inspection/battery test. Everything was fine, and the rating the tech gave my brake pads was 95% unused. I doubt any other vehicle would have had the same result, even though I do downshift on the hills. It is really quite easy to utilize the regen system to avoid using the actual brakes.

As for range, you need to learn the vehicle, and you will get where you want to go. The gauge in the vehicle that tries to say how far you can go has no idea of the terrain, so it can be ignored once you understand the vehicle. For instance, I had two bars of energy showing on the battery gauge the other day, and the gauge said 7 miles till I would be out of energy. I was 21 miles from home, but the majority of it was downhill - the car has no way of knowing that. I got home with one full bar remaining on the gauge, and the numbered gauge read 8. I never turned off the AC, as it was a warmish day and I wanted to be comfortable.

That was a 70+ mile trip, with 65MPH speeds for about 30 miles, and I have made it many times over the year. I would say that 80 or 90% of the time I am too frugal with the energy, just to be sure we arrive without the need to stop elsewhere to charge. The other 10 to 20% of the time, I am glad I was so frugal, since I like to keep the battery above 10% remaining when I plug in. I have only seen a second low battery warning two or three times, and never a turtle. All of these were due to weather, including snow at a high elevation, rain, slush, and even hail. My longest drive on one charge was to the ocean and back, a little over 85 miles. I took city streets and a meandering path with several stops to get there, and then returned on highway roads with speeds around 55. This was a nice day and I got home with the first battery warning just a few miles from home. The first battery warning sounds when you have a little less than 20% remaing available power.

As for steep hills, it is far easier to control the Leaf as you have instant torque to the front drive wheel at your command, and the traction control is standard.

 

[tcherniaev]

I live in Utah, so lots of mountains here. Your battery bars do disappear quickly when you are going uphill. If you start and finish at the same altitude your range is not much different from the flat area range.

 

[Bassman]

I live in the foothills in Northern California at 1500 feet elevation and commute daily to Sacramento (63 miles one way). I charge to 100% at home (AV unit) and 100% at work using Ingineers modified portable EVSE. Over 19,000 miles in roughly 11 months and the only issue, as Abasile has indicated is that early tire wear is common. Typically get 77 to 85 miles on 100% charge in the Summer and 65 to 73 miles in the Winter. Preheat using the garage EVSE and don't use the heater except to periodically defrost the window in the Winter. The A/C doesn't use much battery, but the heater does, so I use it sparingly.

 

[edatoakrun]

Indeed, one year on, my LEAF is still going strong. My posts here have been limited lately due to time constraints, but I'm driving down and back up a 5000' "hill" quite frequently now...

While the LEAF has plenty of available power on mountain grades, I do suspect that for battery longevity it is best to drive conservatively, i.e., not fly up the 5000' mountain climb every day at a high, continuous discharge rate.

The only real negative is that, at almost 13,000 miles, my LEAF's tires aren't looking too good. The shoulders on all four tires are completely bald. Hopefully I can get by with them through the dry months (until Nov.). But we normally do wear our tires quickly; replacing stock tires at less than 20,000 miles is quite common. We look for high wear ratings whenever we buy new tires.

The other thing is that I've found I need to manually stop charging at about 65% or less if I want decent regenerative braking going all the way down the mountain. As has been expressed to Nissan, I really wish the charging timers were flexible enough to support this automatically; currently the only choices are 80% and 100%.

I don't have as may 5,000 ft days as abasile does, but I do average near 100 ft of ascent and descent, for every mile I drive.

And I have done one 11,000 ft day, which I plan to try to repeat a few times this year, after the road is plowed, in June or July:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=5022&hilit=+lassen" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My tires actually seem to be wearing pretty well, at only 7500 miles, as I also tended also to get only about 20,000-30,000 miles on "60,000 mile tread-wear" tires, when I lived back in the ICEV age.

I don't worry too much about limiting my kW use on climbs, but I admit that I do drive a little slower, than I used to.

I do generally only charge to 80%-90%, to get maximum regen, on my about 2,000 ft descent, with 500 ft of ascent, on first 10 miles of my drive down to the valley floor.

Just want to add that the LEAF handles very well in twisting mountain roads, due to the lower center of gravity, and weight centered between the axles. Handling is akin to a mid-engine ICEV (albeit one with fairly soft suspension, and limited performance stock tires).

The very good road clearance, and traction control, comes in very handy for my off-asphalt excursions, and when driving through several inches of snow as well. (I plan on getting cable chains for next winter).

In Sum, IMO, the LEAF may be under-appreciated, for the excellent rural/mountain vehicle, that it is.

 

[garygid]

Does inflating the tires to 40 psi (or more! ) reduce the edge wear?

Is the edge wear largely caused by the frequent higher-speed "cornering"
that is required to navigate typical mountain curvy roads?

 

[edatoakrun]

Does inflating the tires to 40 psi (or more! ) reduce the edge wear?

Is the edge wear largely caused by the frequent higher-speed "cornering"
that is required to navigate typical mountain curvy roads?

Yes, winding roads eat tires due to cornering friction.

Higher pressure does help.

I do keep about 40 lbs in my LEAF, as opposed to only 34-36 in my ICEVs.

What I've noticed, is the LEAF has better front/rear weight distribution, and "Plows" less than my FWD 4 cylinder 5-speed front-heavy (but lighter overall) Stratus, which, on the same roads, went through about five sets of tires, in about 150,000 miles, always scrubbing off the outer tread firsts, with the tread-wear occurring largely when mounted on the front.

I had the LEAFs tires rotated at about 5k, and noticed the front tire edge wear was less, than I'd expected.

But I've only got 7,500 miles, so far.

 

[Herm]

Perhaps realigning the wheels to a non-factory spec may help with that edge wear.. talk to a specialist. Either that or really increase tire pressure.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Perhaps realigning the wheels to a non-factory spec may help with that edge wear.. talk to a specialist. Either that or really increase tire pressure.

Lots of us with higher mileage (+20,000 miles) with that type of wear, and I run 42-44 psi. The tires are crap.

 

[Juiced]

I drive back and forth between Santa Ynez and Santa Barbara on a regular basis on HWY 154. The trip starts in Santa Ynez at 700 feet altitude, over San Marcos pass at 2,500 feet altitude, and down to SB at sea level and back. The winding road has a 55 MPH speed limit and I drive it at 60 (most people drive faster). The Leaf pulls great uphill, in fact much better than the ICE econo-boxes that are on the road. I am getting 80+ miles of range but the trick is getting over the pass on the way back. I have been down to 2 bars and 8 mile range at the summit (half way point) and reached home on the other side with a 10 mile range reading thanks to downhill regen. Thankfully, new public charging stations are currently going in on both sides of the pass.

 

[abasile]

I run 40 psi in all four tires. As Tony suggested, maybe I should bump it up a bit...

 

[Herm]

Lots of us with higher mileage (+20,000 miles) with that type of wear, and I run 42-44 psi. The tires are crap.

I was thinking a bit more negative camber on the front wheels.. does anyone have the specs handy?

 

[DaveEV]

Lots of us with higher mileage (+20,000 miles) with that type of wear, and I run 42-44 psi. The tires are crap.

I was thinking a bit more negative camber on the front wheels.. does anyone have the specs handy?

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Suspension#Alignment" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Stock specs call for just a tiny bit of negative camber in the front. If one could dial it in to match the rear (around -1.3*), you'd reduce outside should wear a good deal, but since camber is basically non-adjustable (you only have the slack in the strut bolts to play with), you'd have to get a camber bolt to dial it in properly.

This should reduce outside shoulder wear on the front tires and increase overall grip in the corners slightly, too.

 

[hill]

Does inflating the tires to 40 psi (or more! ) reduce the edge wear?

Is the edge wear largely caused by the frequent higher-speed "cornering"
that is required to navigate typical mountain curvy roads?

Maybe at YOUR cornering speeds ... but not mine.
On a non-humerous note ... I'm curious - no comments from the OP. To what end was the info supposed to achieve.

 

[LeafRsearch]

Hill,
I am doing some research on the Leaf and just trying to better understand how the Leaf does in some of the extreme usage areas and were these areas are. Post like Abasile, dgpcolorado, Bassman, edatoakrun and Juiced have been a big help. The tire wear comments are something that I hadn't thought about.

Please keep the post coming. Again just trying to determine where the extreme usage areas are, how the Leaf doing in them and if the drivers have had to change anything about the way they drive in these areas.

 

[abasile]

This evening we stopped at the DC Fast Charger in San Bernardino (now back on!) immediately prior to our climb up the mountain, then drove 40 mph or faster pretty much all the way up. That translated to a continuous 25-30 kW of motor power, or four "bubbles" (including the center one) on the power display. I only had to use a turnout once for a faster vehicle. As that battery discharge rate is no higher than 1.5 C, it shouldn't be particularly stressful.