Musk : What the world really needs is a great, affordable EV

[evnow]

Topics merged.

 

[evnow]

So I think Elon's statement is pausible.

Yes, the same way they said Tesla S costs $500 a month (or was that $300 ?).

 

[Ingineer]

Tesla's pack has room for a water-cooling tube to be wrapped around both sides of each cell.

This is incorrect, the water cooling tube only contacts about 1/4 of the cells diameter. It's also separated by a grey silicone thermal pad.

-Phil

 

[Ingineer]

Gasoline dispensers are limited to 10GPM. Let's say the average is 5 GPM. That's 3-6 minutes for your typical vehicle.

Seems like the ones around here equipped with vapor-recovery are much slower than that! Refueling a 20 gallon tank seems to take around 8 minutes, so that's about 2.5GPM.

The Diesel nozzles are much faster though, even the non-truck ones will fill a 23 gallon tank in under 5 minutes.

-Phil

 

[Ingineer]

Like a Rav4 EV? It is all that right now. Currently $51k, with about $25k in discounts/credits/rebates.

Tony, let me know if the RAV4 EV gets closer to 20K. That may make it impossible to resist, Then I can figure out how to add a CHAdeMO and/or Supercharger port!

-Phil

 

[TonyWilliams]

Yep, my next EV has to have a minimum real range of 100 miles at a true 65 mph freeway speed.

Since I can drive up to 100 miles per day easily, my current 140 mile range Rav4 EV works well. That doesn't mean that I don't want more range, and in particular, the ability to quick charge.

The bigger issue for a LEAF product is how long does that 100 miles last? Is it 85 miles in 18 months, and falling from there? When it gets cold out, is it now 70 miles?

 

[Goodtohave]

I thought I also heard him mention that autopilot may debut on this model.

He said he would like to see it. But basically it is just a distant possibility right now.
Basically, if it becomes available, they will consider it, but I wouldn't plan on it.

The 2014 Mercedes S class can do a lot of autonomous driving in traffic it but they decided to limit the ability as the legal liability would be a nightmare


http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/first-looks/new-car-tech-2014-mercedes-benz-s-class" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[evnow]

The 2014 Mercedes S class can do a lot of autonomous driving in traffic it but they decided to limit the ability as the legal liability would be a nightmare

http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/first-looks/new-car-tech-2014-mercedes-benz-s-class" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes, I think autonomous driving is our version of the "flying cars".

 

[apvbguy]

Yes, I think autonomous driving is our version of the "flying cars".

it depends on what level of autonomy you are seeking, there are a few cars that offer hands free autonomous parallel parking.
I agree that that fully autonomous autos are a very long way off

 

[evnow]

Back to Tesla, this is what InsideEVs says about the Gen 3

The Tesla founder notes the following tidbits on the Gen III car:

- now expects the car to arrive in 3-4 years (which is later than the original estimate, but a sooner arrival than the last update/tweet when the car’s arrival was pegged in the 2017-2018 timeframe)
- 200 miles of range (in fact Tesla notes that all their cars will now always have at least 200 miles of range)
- working with Panasonic with new cell electrochemistry to make affordable 200+ mile ranges happen
- “strong family resemblance” to the Model S
- use of ultra-capacitors that “the public doesn’t know about”
- all cars to utilize supercharge

If true, this would indeed be great.

On Model S, Tesla was guilty of mentioning the low price of the base model ($50k) and mileage of the high model (300 miles) together. So, to me the question is does that $35k car really have 200 miles range (i.e. 60 kWh) or is that a higher trim ?

Looks like Tesla is promising 200 miles minimum range on all trims and models. Ofcourse a lot can change in 3/4 years.

 

[KJD]

The item that caught my eye was this.

all cars to utilize supercharge

At that point I would say do I really need a gas car at all ?

 

[evnow]

The item that caught my eye was this.

all cars to utilize supercharge

At that point I would say do I really need a gas car at all ?

Remember even in 2015 superchargers cover only some freeways. You can't go into the interior.

For eg., in the Tesla forums people (in the northwest) want CHAdeMO adapters because those chargers cover interior much better than supercharger.

 

[Zythryn]

The item that caught my eye was this.

all cars to utilize supercharge

At that point I would say do I really need a gas car at all ?

Remember even in 2015 superchargers cover only some freeways. You can't go into the interior.

For eg., in the Tesla forums people (in the northwest) want CHAdeMO adapters because those chargers cover interior much better than supercharger.

Are you referring to the interior of Canada?
The US is pretty well plastered by 2015.

http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[evnow]

Are you referring to the interior of Canada?
The US is pretty well plastered by 2015.

http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No not Canada. For eg. you can't go around Olympic peninsula or Oregon coast.

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/16401-CHAdeMO-adapter-frustration" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The other big problem is, superchargers are not there at your destination - only along the way. Destination superchargers would be expensive as land prices are expensive in cities.

 

[KJD]

Looking at the Tesla supercharger map, I can see 5 stations planned for Utah. At the same time Nissan has planned for zero.

Combine this with an affordable EV and they will gain at least one more customer and maybe a few more.

 

[evnow]

Looking at the Tesla supercharger map, I can see 5 stations planned for Utah. At the same time Nissan has planned for zero.

Combine this with an affordable EV and they will gain at least one more customer and maybe a few more.

Yes, Chademo is present now only in a few states.

 

[Sublime]

The other big problem is, superchargers are not there at your destination - only along the way. Destination superchargers would be expensive as land prices are expensive in cities.

As owners of sub 100 mile range EVs we, of all people, should understand that you don't need L3 charging at your destination.

The idea of the stations are that for the vast majority of the time no one is using them and they're selling solar energy to the local utility at peak rates. On the weekends under heavy usage they use mostly grid power at off-peak rates. If perfectly sized, there are no lines during peak usage and come Monday morning the net energy bill is zero. In that scenario the cost of the station is mostly up front capital and can easily be calculated and built into the cost of the cars sold.

You put the stations at destinations and the model falls apart. People start using it heavily during peak power rates and like you said, real estate gets very pricey.

 

[evnow]

As owners of sub 100 mile range EVs we, of all people, should understand that you don't need L3 charging at your destination.

...

You put the stations at destinations and the model falls apart. People start using it heavily during peak power rates and like you said, real estate gets very pricey.

As a car owner I don't care about the model - may be as an investor I do.

As a car owner, I want to be able to charge at my destination and head back home. I can go to Vancouver or Portland, but how do I come back ?

 

[Sublime]

As owners of sub 100 mile range EVs we, of all people, should understand that you don't need L3 charging at your destination.

...

You put the stations at destinations and the model falls apart. People start using it heavily during peak power rates and like you said, real estate gets very pricey.

As a car owner I don't care about the model - may be as an investor I do.

As a car owner, I want to be able to charge at my destination and head back home. I can go to Vancouver or Portland, but how do I come back ?

L2. 7kWh will get you about 24mph.

L2 is becoming pretty prevalent at destinations, by 2015 if Tesla is cranking out the volume of EVs they anticipate in addition to what's already on the road, L2 will be in just about every parking lot.

 

[evnow]

L2. 7kWh will get you about 24mph.

L2 is becoming pretty prevalent at destinations, by 2015 if Tesla is cranking out the volume of EVs they anticipate in addition to what's already on the road, L2 will be in just about every parking lot.

Actually if we have longer range EVs need for around the city L2 becomes less.

Moreover when you visit a city and go around a few places, unless L2 is right there where you park, it is not practical.