My first DC Quick Charge

[Ingineer]

If the DOE had given me just 10% of what they gave Ecotality, I could have QC's all over the place.

Sad.

-Phil

 

[hpage]

Some young whippersnapper engineer should a develop a low cost 600VDC -> 400VDC converter; 600VDC being available in many places in San Francisco (and other places)!

 

[Ingineer]

Some young whippersnapper engineer should a develop a low cost 600VDC -> 400VDC converter; 600VDC being available in many places in San Francisco (and other places)!

That's the rub... 600vdc is just 6 diodes away from 480VAC 3-phase. It's the conversion from that at high current and with precise control, all while maintaining galvanic isolation, that's the trick.

-Phil

 

[Herm]

Yes, I have a LEAF now.

Congratulations!.. from what you describe this charger does not sound ready for prime time in California, should not really blame the lawyers.

You can get a precise temperature reading on the battery?.. 98° to 122° F sounds a bit worrysome. I would be neat to get a CAN Bus dump during a fast charge

 

[smkettner]

I think most want a home QC that runs 32 amps on the 40a circuit AV overcharged to install.

 

[DaveEV]

What was the voltage of the DC charger as the batteries approach 100% (393.5v) ?

If you look at the pics, the voltage reading on the charging station seems to be limited to 393V as early as 70% charge.

I'm sure that the charging protocol basically specifies a maximum power and maximum voltage and switches between 2 charge phases.

1. Bulk charging where pack voltage is below maximum voltage and current will be applied at maximum power.
2. Constant voltage charging where pack voltage has reached maximum voltage (which in this case appears to be 393V) and current will be limited such that maximum voltage is not exceeded.

From Phil's pics we have:

SOC 45% 381V, 125A ~48kW
SOC 72% 393V, 38A ~30kW
SOC 88% 393V, 28A ~11kW
SOC 98% 393V, 8A ~3kW (No pic so can't confirm 393V but should be the same)

If one stopped charging at some point and measured resting voltage one could get a rough internal resistance number.

 

[camasleaf]

I think most want a home QC that runs 32 amps on the 40a circuit AV overcharged to install.

+1

 

[davewill]

I think most want a home QC that runs 32 amps on the 40a circuit AV overcharged to install.

No, if that's all we're going to get, I'd rather have one that can be installed in place of the on-board charger. I need 6.6kW public charging much more than I need it at home.

 

[Ingineer]

I think I saw a 394 occasionally, but it does appear to be using a CC/CV algorithm. The CHAdeMO quick charger doesn't make this call though, it's just receiving instructions from the car.

-Phil

 

[smkettner]

I think most want a home QC that runs 32 amps on the 40a circuit AV overcharged to install.

No, if that's all we're going to get, I'd rather have one that can be installed in place of the on-board charger. I need 6.6kW public charging much more than I need it at home.

Yes plug the public J plug into a box, other side of box is QC to put into your Leaf. At home or away would be fine.

 

[mxp]

Suppose if a private company acquired this TEPCO charger off the Vacaville facility, could it be installed without UL for private use?

How much is this TEPCO unit worth anyways?

 

[ElectricVehicle]

I think most want a home QC that runs 32 amps on the 40a circuit AV overcharged to install.

No, if that's all we're going to get, I'd rather have one that can be installed in place of the on-board charger. I need 6.6kW public charging much more than I need it at home.

Yes plug the public J plug into a box, other side of box is QC to put into your Leaf. At home or away would be fine.

If I'm waiting on the charge during a public charge, I want a 10 or 15 kW charger on board the LEAF, or for our existing LEAFs, an offboard unit that can be left in the trunk or has a reasonable weight so it can be moved relatively easily by a single light weight person. The J1772 standard does up to 19.2 kW. Practically speaking, many public chargers are fed by 208V and the highest current J1772 connector in production is 70A so that's 208V * 70A = 14.6 kW. There are a dozen or so high power J1772 charging stations already operational in California (6 are already converted to J1772, 8 still have the Tesla HPC connector), compared to one DC Quick Charge in California at Mitsubishi. An adapter can be made from the Tesla HPC connector. It's already been done.

High Power Level 2 charging stations in California - 14 stations that supply 15+ kW (208V+ @ 70A) http://www.evchargernews.com/regions/ch-tesla-tesla.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (note there are a couple 32A stations in this listing beyond the 14 High Power Level 2 charging stations)

We'll want QC also, but high power J1772 is a LOT cheaper, a LOT faster and easier to deploy!!!

 

[ElectricVehicle]

Suppose if a private company acquired this TEPCO charger off the Vacaville facility, could it be installed without UL for private use?

How much is this TEPCO unit worth anyways?

I'm not sure we even have to buy the TEPCO. We need to purchase a UL listed replacement QC for $15k, or whenever Nissan gets their $10k 50 kW QC available and UL Listed, we coudl buy that. It's also possible that doing this as a non-profit, we may be able to negotiate several thousand off of the list price. If we purchase the replacement and give it to PG&E to replace the TEPCO, they might give the TEPCO to us in "exchange" of some sort. If the power is provided by the host and we can get PG&E to cover the installation costs - only a few thousand in this case, since the three phase power is already there at the charger, then we need to jump on this and purchase the replacement charger! I'll make a contribution of a few hundred.

 

[planet4ever]

Yes plug the public J plug into a box, other side of box is QC to put into your Leaf. At home or away would be fine.

It seems to me you dreamers might not be thinking this through very carefully. That "box" you are talking about is likely to be very large, very heavy, and very expensive. Were you listening to what Phil has been saying?

The way CHAdeMO works, the QC (Quick Charger) receives commands from the LEAF via a CAN (Controller Area Network) connection every 100ms. These messages tell the QC how many volts/amps to deliver, and the charger just does what it's told.
<and later>
It's the conversion from that at high current and with precise control, all while maintaining galvanic isolation, that's the trick.

So your "box" has to provide precise, but variable, voltage as commanded, at very high current levels that it also controls as commanded. I don't know much about electronics, but this doesn't sound cheap or easy.

Ray

 

[Phoenix]

Suppose if a private company acquired this TEPCO charger off the Vacaville facility, could it be installed without UL for private use?

How much is this TEPCO unit worth anyways?

I'm not sure we even have to buy the TEPCO. We need to purchase a UL listed replacement QC for $15k, or whenever Nissan gets their $10k 50 kW QC available and UL Listed, we coudl buy that. It's also possible that doing this as a non-profit, we may be able to negotiate several thousand off of the list price. If we purchase the replacement and give it to PG&E to replace the TEPCO, they might give the TEPCO to us in "exchange" of some sort. If the power is provided by the host and we can get PG&E to cover the installation costs - only a few thousand in this case, since the three phase power is already there at the charger, then we need to jump on this and purchase the replacement charger! I'll make a contribution of a few hundred.

How about getting a Schneider or Mitsubishi QC unit (since they are already available)? In exchange, we also get the TEPCO charger relocated to another site. That would double the QCs for use. Let's say for starters, we get 100 LEAF owners contributing $200 apiece while the funds are held by the Electric Auto Assn in their trust account. Meanwhile, someone explores the appropriate QC to purchase? Count me in.

 

[mxp]

Suppose if a private company acquired this TEPCO charger off the Vacaville facility, could it be installed without UL for private use?

How much is this TEPCO unit worth anyways?

I'm not sure we even have to buy the TEPCO. We need to purchase a UL listed replacement QC for $15k, or whenever Nissan gets their $10k 50 kW QC available and UL Listed, we coudl buy that. It's also possible that doing this as a non-profit, we may be able to negotiate several thousand off of the list price. If we purchase the replacement and give it to PG&E to replace the TEPCO, they might give the TEPCO to us in "exchange" of some sort. If the power is provided by the host and we can get PG&E to cover the installation costs - only a few thousand in this case, since the three phase power is already there at the charger, then we need to jump on this and purchase the replacement charger! I'll make a contribution of a few hundred.

How about getting a Schneider or Mitsubishi QC unit (since they are already available)? In exchange, we also get the TEPCO charger relocated to another site. That would double the QCs for use. Let's say for starters, we get 100 LEAF owners contributing $200 apiece while the funds are held by the Electric Auto Assn in their trust account. Meanwhile, someone explores the appropriate QC to purchase? Count me in.

Yes! Exactly! Please count me in as well.

So, who on the forums could lead us into coordinating this project?? ;-)

 

[TonyWilliams]

Until there are many more LEAF owners, you're not going to get the money from the current group. At best, you'd get 1% or 2% "investment" rates.

 

[Phoenix]

Until there are many more LEAF owners, you're not going to get the money from the current group. At best, you'd get 1% or 2% "investment" rates.

I believe we have about 100 BayLEAFers now. If we can pick up some of the Sacramento & surrounding area LEAFers, it is do-able. Meanwhile, I think we need to identify and price out a QC unit acceptable to Vacaville & PG&E before we can start passing around the hat. Still can't understand why Vacaville does not qualify for a free EV Project QC unit.

 

[evnow]

The display shows real-time Volts, Amps, and SOC (State-of-Charge) as a percentage bar-graph.

I wonder how this % corresponds to the SOC meter % !

 

[Herm]

I believe we have about 100 BayLEAFers now. If we can pick up some of the Sacramento & surrounding area LEAFers, it is do-able. Meanwhile, I think we need to identify and price out a QC unit acceptable to Vacaville & PG&E before we can start passing around the hat. Still can't understand why Vacaville does not qualify for a free EV Project QC unit.

The UK Leaf group has a good chat going on this subject:

http://www.leaftalk.co.uk/showthread.php/4229-Can-we-build-our-own-DC-Quick-Charge-network" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They even talk about selling shares and then distributing the dividends from selling quick charges.. and growing the network with the dividends.