Narrow (Right) Batt level indicator vs. Wider (Left) Batt..

[mxp]

Hi,
I searched but could not find an explanation for this.

We just recently discovered that one of our Leaf's Batt level indicator (Right side) has only 11 bars. And with a 100% charge, the Wider (Left side) Batt level indicator actually still show the full 12 bars.

I am confused.

I thought it was the reverse when you lose a batt capacity bar. (Meaning, you lose one bar on the Wider (Left side) batt level indicator.

Can someone pls help explain what's going on??

We have a 2011 Leaf, 28k miles and yes, we're expecting to lose a bar soon, but its confusing to see the bar loss was on the wrong indicator.

 

[Mottyski82]

I'm sorry to tell you that the smaller bars on the right side (with the 1 next to it) are the total capacity indicator... So it sounds like your capacity finally passed the threshold at which it indicates you are down to less than 85% of original capacity. But you probably can still drive ~85% of the miles you could when it was new, right?
The wider bars to the left are the indicator of approximate charge %. It will still register 100% charge, it's just not the same 100% that you had when the car was brand spankin' new.

I hope this helps clear that up for you.

 

[Levenkay]

No; having a degraded battery is depressing enough without using the overwhelmingly most visible section of the bar graph to trumpet it. The outer rim of the graph (the ends of the bars) depict the battery capacity; the wide inner segments depict the normalized percentage of whatever your maximum charge currently is.

 

[mxp]

I'm sorry to tell you that the smaller bars on the right side (with the 1 next to it) are the total capacity indicator... So it sounds like your capacity finally passed the threshold at which it indicates you are down to less than 85% of original capacity. But you probably can still drive ~85% of the miles you could when it was new, right?
The wider bars to the left are the indicator of approximate charge %. It will still register 100% charge, it's just not the same 100% that you had when the car was brand spankin' new.

I hope this helps clear that up for you.

Thanks for your explanation Motty.

We can tolerate losing a bar and the commute distance still works for us.

Let me attempt to say it and see if I understood you correctly:
I have only 85% of capacity, but I am still able to fully charge up the 85% capacity. Is that correct?

Now, another observation:
We do use the timer set for 80% charge on certain days.
So, what does it mean if I only see 9 bars (on the left side) and well, now the 11 bars on the right side?

Given that I have lost one capacity bar; I assume for a 80% requested charge, I would expect to see 10 bars (on the left), but at times I can only see 9 bars. Is that a sign that the requested 80% charge did not make it to 80% level of the current 85% capacity ?

 

[mxp]

No; having a degraded battery is depressing enough without using the overwhelmingly most visible section of the bar graph to trumpet it. The outer rim of the graph (the ends of the bars) depict the battery capacity; the wide inner segments depict the normalized percentage of whatever your maximum charge currently is.

Thanks for your reply Levenkay. I think you just confirmed my previous response to Motty.

Do you know what to expect next with my other observation?

At this time, I am trying to establish if the rate of my battery capacity loss will continue to be gradual or worse case, lean towards accelerated....

 

[cwerdna]

The definition of the thin bars on the right has been discussed many times here and documented at places like http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/?title=Battery_Capacity_Loss#Battery_Aging_Model" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery#Battery_Capacity_Behavior" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (previously under a slightly different URL prior to the wiki move).

The '11 Leaf owner's manual also briefly discusses it on page 2-10 but gives no definitions of what each bar represents.

 

[Valdemar]

No one really knows the dynamics of battery degradation over time but generally it should be linear or better for quite a while. It's been a year and 20000 miles since I lost my first bar, still have 11, but ymmv.

 

[gbarry42]

Now, another observation:
We do use the timer set for 80% charge on certain days.
So, what does it mean if I only see 9 bars (on the left side) and well, now the 11 bars on the right side?

Think of it as indicating 79.9% charged.

It really is at 80%, but the arithmetic that's used to decide where bar 10 falls is not exact. As the battery capacity decreases, the amount of charge that represents 80% is constantly changing, so these are somewhat of a moving target. It may also be sensitive to temperature. But the bottom line is that, yes, you are reaching 80% charge. Many of us see "9 bars". This has also been discussed extensively, and you may or may not have noticed this behavior recently, even before the 12th capacity indicator turned off.

The capacity loss won't accelerate (it's actually supposed to do the opposite), that is, unless you change how you use the car or the climate it lives in. But be advised that the amount of loss for the first indicator is twice the amount as for the succeeding ones, so less time will go by before the next one goes.

 

[Mottyski82]

I agree with the comments made that you are still getting an 80% charge, and it is showing as 79.9% at times. This is normal... I get this frequently. However, it is important that you understand that if you need to drive close to 85 miles or even more on a single charge, you will now want to charge to 100% to make that kind of a distance.
I also agree that capacity loss should not accelerate, and in fact should slow down almost to a radioactive half life sort of situation as you pass the first year, two, and on... Oh, and yes, that is if you continue driving in the same area as you have from the getgo.
No offense intended if anyone took my comment that way. I am a layman after all.

 

[dgpcolorado]

...The capacity loss won't accelerate (it's actually supposed to do the opposite), that is, unless you change how you use the car or the climate it lives in. But be advised that the amount of loss for the first indicator is twice the amount as for the succeeding ones, so less time will go by before the next one goes.

Just wanted to point out that the first capacity bar is supposed to be rather more than "twice the amount" for each of the rest. The link posted by cwerdna above, Battery Capacity Behavior, shows 15% for the first bar and 6.25% for each of the rest. Once one loses the first capacity bar, expect the others to start dropping much more rapidly. [Also, be aware that the measurements of battery capacity may be subject to some error and variation; software update P3227 is supposed to correct this but has a nasty side effect of greatly reducing regen braking under many conditions.]

Although the rate of degradation is supposed to slow, there has been little sign of it among LEAF owners with meters*. It may be that as the battery capacity declines, the depth of charging necessary to achieve a certain range increases and that causes the capacity to decline more quickly than would otherwise be the case based on just temperature and age.


* However, because capacity decline is so temperature dependent and, therefore, seasonal, it is very hard to measure a battery decline curve accurately. Only with large volumes of cars, where the seasonality is averaged out over large numbers, could a better capacity decline curve be made. For now all we have is anecdotal data.

 

[TomT]

Though anecdotal evidence indicates that the slow-down, if there is any at all, is not nearly as pronounced as we were initially led to believe by Nissan...

I also agree that capacity loss should not accelerate, and in fact should slow down almost to a radioactive half life sort of situation as you pass the first year, two, and on...