Newbie Q: Is the Lease Salesman giving me the right info?

[Gearscout]

Greetings!

I live in Atlanta, GA and commute 42 miles (roundtrip) 5 days a week. Georgia has relatively mild winters but the summers have their share of 100+ days. Right now, I plan to park it behind my house (not in the garage) where there is good access to 120v power. I have 220v power available in a couple of convenient locations.

I'm taking advantage of Georgia's $5,000 tax refund on a 2013 Leaf S. My employment with a company that does business with Nissan enables me to take advantage the VPP (Vehicle Purchase Program) offered by Nissan.

I'm going to pay the approximately $1500 Ad Valorem Tax up front and my lease will cost me $203/month for 24 months at 12k miles per year. I can upgrade to 15k miles for an additional $15 per month.

I have 2 major questions:

1. Should I increase the mileage on the lease? My annual commute total is roughly 11,250 miles. I know the family is going to want to use this car on weekends or for short shopping trips. I've got plenty of other cars, of course. Rather than going over, I could revert back to my Mini Cooper S for 1 day a week or something. I'm interested in your opinions. It would obviously increase my lease cost by $360. (I'm currently paying around $225/month in fuel for my commute -- the Mini takes Premium fuel...other maintenance costs are also higher.) Hopefully, some of you have had this experience and can share your suggestions!

2. The lease salesman keeps telling me that for my purposes, I'm not going to want anything more than the 120v "trickle" charger that comes standard with the vehicle. It's a fairly flat commute, mostly on GA400 and Interstate 85 into Atlanta from the Northern suburbs (as noted, about 21 miles each way.) I'm reckoning it will take around 10-12 hours to recharge the S. Georgia Power offers a lower rate to EV owners if they put their cars on charge only between 11PM - 7AM. I haven't been able to figure out how much cheaper that would be -- but it's not enough time to recharge the vehicle with the 120v system. Is it going to be worth it on a 2-year lease to pay an additional $1100 for the 220v charger option?

Many thanks for your time and thoughts!

 

[evnow]

I haven't been able to figure out how much cheaper that would be -- but it's not enough time to recharge the vehicle with the 120v system. Is it going to be worth it on a 2-year lease to pay an additional $1100 for the 220v charger option?

Chances are this won't be your last EV ;-)

L2 charging will help you go to an evening dinner after coming back from work. Ofcourse you could also do multiple trips during the weekend.

I suggest you use just L1 for the first couple of weeks or so before determining your need. Also checkout the thread on MY13 Leaf EVSE options.

 

[Sublime]

One thing to note is that the tax incentive in GA is $5K or 20% of the capital cost (which means after rebates). So a $32500 SV after $7.5k rebate is $25k and 20% of that is $5k. So any model under $25k after rebates won't get you the full $5k benefit.

As for the mileage. I have a 30 mile roundtrip commute and wish I had done the 15k mile instead.

I'd wait on the L2 to see if you really need it. It will take about 10 hours to recharge from your commute at L1.

 

[garygTx]

I have a just under 40 mile commute, and for the first couple of months I only used the 110 charger. With the heater usage in winter, sometimes I needed to find a 220 volt charger. The charger the salesman is talking about is the 6.6kw charger, you don't need that for 220, as the charger you have will support 220, but at 3.3kw. Due to the heater in the S model, you may want to get the SV instead. The heat pump is a BIG improvement.

I suggest getting the EVSE Upgrade, so you can charge with 220 at home. My recharges take less than 3 hours with my 3.3 kw charger on 220.

I hope that helps.

 

[braineo]

I do 46 miles a day commute without problem. I used the 120v exclusively for the first few weeks before my free installation of a Blink charger with ecotality (don't know if they are still available).

Welcome to the community and hope to see you at the EV Cub of the South meetings at Manuaels the 3rd wednesday of each month from 7-9pm where all our EV questions can be answered.

 

[apvbguy]

all I can offer is that you'd be happier upgrading from the 120 charger

 

[planet4ever]

Is it going to be worth it on a 2-year lease to pay an additional $1100 for the 220v charger option?

I'm not sure which of two things you are referring to here, and it looks like various responders have assumed one or the other:

• There is a "Charge Package" option for the S model. That does not add 240v charging; the base S model already has that. What is does is nearly double the maximum speed of the 240v charging. Since the base speed is already about three times as fast as 120v charging, you are unlikely to need that at home. You might want it, and/or the Quick Charge that comes with it, if you expect to be charging away from home.
• In order to use 240v charging at home you will need a 240v EVSE. Those are usually mounted in the garage, and lots of different models are available. Most cost around $1000, though some are cheaper and some more expensive. Installation can add a lot to that price. A few are portable, and many of us here have opted for the portable EVSEupgrade, which is much less expensive, more flexible, and incredibly reliable. But you do still need to get a 240v circuit installed in your garage, or wherever you plan to plug the EVSE in, and it won't charge quite as fast as the 30A EVSEs if you do get the Charge Package or upgrade to the SV or SL models.

Ray

 

[Reddy]

Yes, you can get by with L1. Unless you buy/lease another EV in 2 yrs, I wouldn't get L2 (it will get cheaper in the future). Get the higher mileage lease, you'll end up driving more because it's more enjoyable than a gas car, and much cheaper. Charge up to 100% on the weekends (should be cheaper rates), and then charge from 11pm-7am every week night, or maybe add an hour or two on either side. Don't worry about the small extra cost that isn't during off-peak. Do you wash laundry off-peak? What about using the microwave, running computers, TV, A/C, etc? Yes, try to move everything you can to off-peak, but don't worry about it. Live your life, the extra few bucks isn't a big deal. If you're trying to save money, drop the cell phone, computer, TV, internet, coffee, eating out, vacations, eliminate cars, etc. and grow your own food. Electricity is cheap compared to all of those things.

 

[Woosie]

I've had my S model for a month now, and have used the quick charger (QC) twice and an L2 charger once, today. Every other day it's been the 110VAC outlet in the garage with the standard trickle charger.

I'm very pleased to have added the "Quick Charge" option to the lease because of the flexibility it gives you. Since the S model is rather bare bones as compared to the other Leaf models, I'll take what I can get!

You'll find yourself looking and using public chargers more and more often. It's happening to me...this how I put 140 miles on the car today.

 

[Epi117]

I really like having a level 2 charger at home. Picked up charger http://evsolutions.avinc.com/products/at_home/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, they often run a $50 off sale, and link purchase to amazon. Amazon has a 12 month zero intrest card.

The level 2 charger, works great for my current situation, all in all we charge 98% at home.

 

[RegGuheert]

1. Should I increase the mileage on the lease?

Yes. Many here have found that they prefer to take the LEAF on every trip it is capable of handling. The fuel savings is obvious: at $0.02/mile, you are likely paying about 1/3 what it costs to drive the Mini, so you save $0.04/mile. that means you would have to drive the LEAF an extra 375 miles to save money over the Mini, but the miles will be lower for less efficient ICE cars. Also, you save in other ways. By driving the leased LEAF, you are keeping the miles off the cars you own, which helps them retain their value.

2. The lease salesman keeps telling me that for my purposes, I'm not going to want anything more than the 120v "trickle" charger that comes standard with the vehicle. It's a fairly flat commute, mostly on GA400 and Interstate 85 into Atlanta from the Northern suburbs (as noted, about 21 miles each way.) I'm reckoning it will take around 10-12 hours to recharge the S. Georgia Power offers a lower rate to EV owners if they put their cars on charge only between 11PM - 7AM. I haven't been able to figure out how much cheaper that would be -- but it's not enough time to recharge the vehicle with the 120v system.

Your salesman is correct, you will want to charge at 240V, which is 3X faster than 120V on the S WITH NO OPTIONS ADDED. Note that charging using 240V takes less electricity than charging using 120V, so it costs less. In addition to using less electricity, you will also be able to purchase the electricity cheaper since you will be able to fully charge your LEAF during the hours allocated by Georgia Power.

Is it going to be worth it on a 2-year lease to pay an additional $1100 for the 220v charger option?

You do NOT need to get any extra option on the vehicle to charge at 240V. ALL LEAFs can be charged at 240V. What you need is a better EVSE (charging cord) than comes in the trunk of the LEAF. The good news is that you can upgrade that one for about $350 at EVSEupgrade.com to allow you to charge from 240V.

BTW, it sounds like you are getting a great deal! I think the LEAF is a good fit for your commute. In two years, you will be able to get an even better EV!

 

[Gearscout]

Many thanks for all of the informative comments!

I'll add the 3k miles to the lease.

The $375 EVSE Upgrade looks attractive. I also see there is a federal tax credit available for installing a home charging station. I may actually add 2 plugs, one in the garage and one underneath my back porch, where I park cars.

If I understand these comments correctly, that would make my base Leaf S capable of Level 1 charging at 220v. Would the EVSE upgrade allow me to tap into Level 2 charging stations -- albeit at a slower charge rate?

I'll have to ask whether there's a penalty for upgrading the EVSE on the leased vehicle at the time of return. Doesn't seem too likely, but you don't want to find out when you return the car at the end of the lease.

Again, thanks for the great tips!

;-)

 

[RegGuheert]

If I understand these comments correctly, that would make my base Leaf S capable of Level 1 charging at 220v.

Almost. Charging at 120V is called "Level 1". Charging at 240V is called "Level 2".

Would the EVSE upgrade allow me to tap into Level 2 charging stations -- albeit at a slower charge rate?

No, since all LEAFs are already capable of being charged at Level 2 charging stations. In other words, the EVSEupgraded unit IS a Level 2 charging station when plugged into 240V.

I'll have to ask whether there's a penalty for upgrading the EVSE on the leased vehicle at the time of return. Doesn't seem too likely, but you don't want to find out when you return the car at the end of the lease.

EVSEupgrade will exchange your upgraded EVSE for a stock unit if you pay for shipping both ways. But some here have simply returned the car with the upgraded unit and not had problems.

 

[Gearscout]

Many thanks, Reg!

That clears up quite a lot. I hope to take delivery of the vehicle next week. I have an upcoming trip to Germany and I'll plan to get the EVSE shipped and upgraded while I'm away.

(It must be painful to read through these newbie misconceptions -- thanks for your patience! ;-)

 

[RegGuheert]

Many thanks, Reg!

You are certainly welcome!

That clears up quite a lot. I hope to take delivery of the vehicle next week. I have an upcoming trip to Germany and I'll plan to get the EVSE shipped and upgraded while I'm away.

That's exactly what I did. I charged the LEAF up to 80% and then shipped the unit off just before a two-week overseas trip. my wife was able to use it for a short trip or two while I was gone. Since EVSEupgrade only wants to ship and receive via UPS, the process takes about two weeks from this side of the country. That is really my only complaint with their setup.

(It must be painful to read through these newbie misconceptions

Not at all. We all had to learn these things and many of us learned them here through the posts of others. There are plenty here who answer newbie questions, so we can take breaks whenever we like and the questions still get answered! Frankly, I'm somewhat lax in this regard, but happened to be in the mood today!

-- thanks for your patience! ;-)

No problem. Enjoy your new LEAF!

 

[johnqh]

You are fine with 120v. You get about 5 miles per hour on L1, so 8 hours will give you back 40 miles.

Charge to full on weekend, 8 hours per day on weekdays. You weekday peak will be lower than 100% sometimes but close. Charge back to 100% at Friday night/ Saturday morning.

 

[Gearscout]

As I plan my installation, other questions arise:

If I'm wiring a 220 dedicated circuit in the garage, it would seem wise to go ahead and make it a 30 amp whether I have the capability to use that much power or not -- since this might not be my last EV, right?

 

[planet4ever]

You are fine with 120v. You get about 5 miles per hour on L1, so 8 hours will give you back 40 miles.

Maybe you can get 5 miles per charging hour, but most people can't. New drivers are more likely to get closer to 3 miles. Many of us get about 4 miles. It all depends on where, how fast, and how carefully you drive. I think you do new owners a disservice by raising false hopes of 5 miles of driving on one hour of trickle charging.

If I'm wiring a 220 dedicated circuit in the garage, it would seem wise to go ahead and make it a 30 amp whether I have the capability to use that much power or not -- since this might not be my last EV, right?

You should make it at least a 40A circuit. EV charging is rated as continuous service, and the electrical code says that cannot exceed 80% of the circuit rating. Many EVSEs are 30A, so must be installed on a 40A circuit. Since there are a few 40A EVSEs, some people here think you should have at least a 50A circuit, but I consider that overkill. A true 30A charge (which is more than the current LEAF will support, even with the new faster charger) at 240v would give you 7.2 kW at the wall, and somewhere between 6 and 6.5 kW into the battery. 8 hours at 6 kW is 48 kWh, well over twice what the current LEAF can hold, and enough to drive 190-200 miles at a typical 4 m/kWh. Those numbers should hold in the future, regardless of what EV you have. So unless you expect to drive more than 50,000 miles/year, a 40A circuit is probably all the future-proofing you need.

Faster charging is important if you need to charge away from home, but not so much in your own garage.

Ray

 

[Gearscout]

Ray,

Thanks for your note on the 40A circuit. I'm calling the electrician out tomorrow! ;-)

 

[planet4ever]

I should perhaps have added a qualification. If you have an older home with an already heavily loaded breaker panel, it could cost a lot of money to upgrade your service. In that case, you might be able to squeeze in a 20A or 30A circuit much more cheaply. That will limit what EVSEs you can use, but for people who drive less than, say, 20,000 miles per year it may not significantly hamper their use of the LEAF.

Ray