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Sure would be nice if Nissan could bring one of their $9k Q.C. they keep talking about ... (sigh) ... the only thing more exhasperating that THAT, would be for them to flatbed a QC in, then run it off a big ol' smoky diesel gen-set.
:?
 
hill said:
Sure would be nice if Nissan could bring one of their $9k Q.C. they keep talking about ... (sigh) ... the only thing more exhasperating that THAT, would be for them to flatbed a QC in, then run it off a big ol' smoky diesel gen-set.
:?

We would have to do the same thing. These things takes lots of electrical power, and that power isn't normally found in parking lots for a display.

I think Nissan is displaying their charger in SF for NPID. Not sure.
 
Nissan, presumably, will have to ante the insurance money as well, to run their charger.

Wonder how much the stadium pays in insurance when they let those explosive gassers park in their lot? :?
 
gbarry42 said:
Nissan, presumably, will have to ante the insurance money as well, to run their charger.

Wonder how much the stadium pays in insurance when they let those explosive gassers park in their lot? :?

Heck, I wonder if Nissan will pull another slick one and not use a CARB listed and approved generator !!! If they get caught, I know the fine is HUGE.
 
What happens to the gaggle? For my route, I see Encinitas / CCSE / Nissan / CCSE / Balboa Park / CCSE / home, to be about 62 miles. I may be able to manage that at 100% charge, but I may have to learn to drive slowly :D Might be able to use a Blink at CCSE but it would have to be available and someone would have to loan me their card (assuming they're all on accounts now...I can't link my card until my current agreement expires).

Is there enough parking lot to spell words and park all the other LEAFs? Or do we park in a raster and code it in color? :)
 
I am scrambling now for plans B, C and D.

I will not rule out having a generator nearby with operational DC charger. I will know this evening.

If I'm there, I'll pass around flyers for a gaggle through the park.


gbarry42 said:
What happens to the gaggle? For my route, I see Encinitas / CCSE / Nissan / CCSE / Balboa Park / CCSE / home, to be about 62 miles. I may be able to manage that at 100% charge, but I may have to learn to drive slowly :D Might be able to use a Blink at CCSE but it would have to be available and someone would have to loan me their card (assuming they're all on accounts now...I can't link my card until my current agreement expires).

Is there enough parking lot to spell words and park all the other LEAFs? Or do we park in a raster and code it in color? :)
 
TonyWilliams said:
Heck, I wonder if Nissan will pull another slick one and not use a CARB listed and approved generator !!! If they get caught, I know the fine is HUGE.
Oh, why did I have to read this one?! ;)

Do you actually know it's non-CARB certified? The mfg, model and hp rating?

Nissan is the owner/operator?
 
JPVLeaf said:
TonyWilliams said:
Heck, I wonder if Nissan will pull another slick one and not use a CARB listed and approved generator !!! If they get caught, I know the fine is HUGE.
Oh, why did I have to read this one?! ;)

Do you actually know it's non-CARB certified? The mfg, model and hp rating?

Nissan is the owner/operator?

Yes, I recorded all that data. It actually says right on the units that it is one of six, Nissan is the owner, purchase order number, etc. No surprises, for units that were delivered to Arizona, for operation in Arizona.
 
gbarry42 said:
What happens to the gaggle? For my route, I see Encinitas / CCSE / Nissan / CCSE / Balboa Park / CCSE / home, to be about 62 miles. I may be able to manage that at 100% charge, but I may have to learn to drive slowly :D Might be able to use a Blink at CCSE...
Also nearby there are charging stations at Mossy Nissan Kearny Mesa, BMW, Enterprise Rent-a-car, Kearny Pearson Ford, IBEW, Mesa College, Ikea, 3375 Camino Del Rio, Mission Center, Miramar College, La Jolla Commons, Costa Verde, Aventine, UCSD, Salk Institute, SDSU. Most are listed on blinknetwork.com. A few are listed on Chargepoint. Most are listed on plugshare.com. A few are still free.

Of course we still have no quick charging. But we may collect this year's batch of glossy fliers promising dozens of quick chargers "real soon now" and burn them in a steam turbine to produce some electricity. :)
 
TonyWilliams said:
JPVLeaf said:
TonyWilliams said:
Heck, I wonder if Nissan will pull another slick one and not use a CARB listed and approved generator !!! If they get caught, I know the fine is HUGE.
Oh, why did I have to read this one?! ;)

Do you actually know it's non-CARB certified? The mfg, model and hp rating?

Nissan is the owner/operator?
Yes, I recorded all that data. It actually says right on the units that it is one of six, Nissan is the owner, purchase order number, etc. No surprises, for units that were delivered to Arizona, for operation in Arizona.
Hmm. If the engine is over 50-hp, the operator ought to have displayed either a CARB certification/permit and have notified the local APCD, or a various locations permit from the air district in which the engine is operating. Even if they're permitted for operation in AZ, I haven't heard of an interstate certification for diesel generators.

That'd be a tad embarrassing for Nissan if they couldn't present their CARB-certification. Well, if that turns out to be the case, and if you or any other 'witness' felt so moved to call the San Diego APCD (SDAPCD) complaint no., it is (858) 586-2650.
 
JPVLeaf said:
ought to have displayed either a CARB certification/permit and have notified the local APCD, or a various locations permit from the air district in which the engine is operating. Even if they're permitted for operation in AZ, I haven't heard of an interstate certification for diesel generators.

That'd be a tad embarrassing for Nissan if they couldn't present their CARB-certification. Well, if that turns out to be the case, and if you or any other 'witness' felt so moved to call the San Diego APCD (SDAPCD) complaint no., it is (858) 586-2650.

Yes, the generators I've used have this required paperwork and certification at the site the genset is used (as required). We would need the phone for the San Francisco office, should they bring the same unit to Crissy Field tomorrow for NPID.
 
Saturday, Nov 17, 2012, 10am - 1pm : Start planning your "long haul" adventure to Santa Ysabel to celebrate the first public DC charger in San Diego. From the 15 freeway at Poway Road, it is 34 miles ONE WAY, with a 3000 foot elevation rise.

There are 3 Blink L2 chargers that we can split into 6 (we need two additional splitters in addition to mine) in addition to the singular DC charger. Unfortunately, counting on that DC charger to be completely operational isn't wise, based on Blink's DC charger track record elsewhere.

I will allow charging at my house at 15 freeway & Poway Road. There are chargers enroute on Poway Road at Walgreens and Poway Mossy Nissan, and three Blink L2's across from Starbucks in Ramona (requires Blink card).

There really is no reason that you can't make it to Santa Ysabel from the coast, but the extremes of Oceanside and south of downtown might need a little charging enroute.

********************************************

d512e950830ff4161730e30351aaab7f.jpg
 
TonyWilliams said:
There really is no reason that you can't make it to Santa Ysabel from the coast, but the extremes of Oceanside and south of downtown might need a little charging enroute.
I'd love to meet there and have a real show of support for Don's Market. But let's take a careful look at feasibility. I know there's not much I can teach about charging logistics to the guy who wrote the range chart and drove to Canada, but here goes...

First there's DC QC availability. Sure the meet is 5 weeks away and the charger is expected to open in 2-3 weeks. But then San Diego's first QC has been expected to open in 2-3 weeks continuously for over a year now. Consider the possibility that in October 2013 we will still be expecting the first QC to open in another 2-3 weeks. There's also the possibility that it will open on schedule but the famous Blink firmware will break; and the possibility that the day before the meeting someone will drive up there and accidentally break the locking handle on the fragile Yazaki connector.

Next there's charging requirements. From the coast (I-5 & Hwy-56) to Don's Market is about 50 miles. At 60 mph that's 14.8 kWh. Add 3.8 kWh for ups and downs (mostly ups) and it's 17.6 kWh. If a full battery is 20.7 kWh and VLBW is 3.5 kWh that means 17.2 kWh which is too little for someone who's faint hearted or who thinks avoiding VLBW driving might help prevent premature battery degradation. Going home at 60 mph would take 10.8 kWh. If, given traffic conditions on that day, it felt safe to drive at 50 mph the trip would be easy: 15.6 kWh going and 8.9 kWh returning.



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Some people no doubt will want to drive on up to Julian after the meeting, and thus will need more charge. But then they'll be coming back down through Santa Ysabel late in the day after the Leaf crowd has dispersed so it should be easy to pick up a QC charge. And two partial QC charges with cooling time in between is probably better for the battery than a single full QC charge.

Figure that each car at the meeting will arrive around VLBW and will need about 10 kWh for the return trip. That's about 3 hours on an L2. From MNL reports I estimate a Chademo QC can deliver 10 kWh in 15 minutes, so the QC could refill 4 cars per hour. With the meeting scheduled for 10am - 1pm figure charging will be done 9am - 2pm. In 5 hours the QC could refill 20 cars, and 6 L2 stations could refill 10 cars. That's in ideal circumstances, probably with one or more people organizing the charging queue, and sharing the burden of that job so nobody should have to miss the whole meeting. One of the L2's might be broken, or it might be ICEd, or it might be posted for disabled access only and inaccessible to most of us. How many cars do we usually get at meetings? More than 30 I think. And how many do we expect at this meeting?

Next we need to check whether our show of support for Don's Market might inadvertently cause them headaches with demand charges. They might expect their demand charges will be okay added onto their existing load, figuring that occasionally the QC will draw 50 kW plus one or two of the L2's running at 3.8 kW, totaling 58 kW. But instead their QC will draw 50 kW continuously at the same time that each of their three L2's will draw 7.6 kW, totaling 73 kW. It probably won't be a problem, but I wouldn't want our gratitude to be the thing that makes Don's Market pull the plug on San Diego's only QC.

There are a lot of contingencies. I'd be willing to participate in, or even to organize, a phone tree (and/or email/SMS bulletin) to notify people of a warning, change of venue, or cancellation. E.g., if we learned at the last minute that the QC was down, or one of the L2 was down, or if we only had one L2 splitter instead of three. Or will we count on MNL being up and look for a confirmation posting Saturday morning that everything is a Go before setting out?
 
walterbays said:
First there's DC QC availability. Sure the meet is 5 weeks away and the charger is expected to open in 2-3 weeks. But then San Diego's first QC has been expected to open in 2-3 weeks continuously for over a year now. Consider the possibility that in October 2013 we will still be expecting the first QC to open in another 2-3 weeks. There's also the possibility that it will open on schedule but the famous Blink firmware will break; and the possibility that the day before the meeting someone will drive up there and accidentally break the locking handle on the fragile Yazaki connector.

All VERY real. This won't be for the faint of heart, with or without a charger. I expect we will get less than 10 cars. We handled 12 cars (plus a few extras) in Phoenix with one less L2.


Next there's charging requirements. From the coast (I-5 & Hwy-56) to Don's Market is about 50 miles. At 60 mph that's 14.8 kWh.... If, given traffic conditions on that day, it felt safe to drive at 50 mph the trip would be easy: 15.6 kWh going and 8.9 kWh returning.


You aren't going to drive east, past 15 freeway at 56 freeway at 60mph. Not even close. At 35-50mph, you'll need about 25kWh. In two hours, we can put 6.5kWh in at Don's market. You'll make it back.

With 3 hours of L2, you'll easily make it. DC charging is a "plus". Enroute, you could leave an hour or two early, and charge at numerous places enroute both ways. We can have a pre-launch charging meet at my house for an hour or two.


And two partial QC charges with cooling time in between is probably better for the battery than a single full QC charge.


Not enough time for folks to "top off" on DC, plus it's not smart to go 3000 feet downhill at 100% charge with no regen.


probably with one or more people organizing the charging queue, and sharing the burden of that job so nobody should have to miss the whole meeting. One of the L2's might be broken, or it might be ICEd, or it might be posted for disabled access only and inaccessible to most of us. How many cars do we usually get at meetings? More than 30 I think. And how many do we expect at this meeting?


Again, because of the logistics in this, I expect 10, however 30 would be awesome!!! Yes, any of those bad things can happen. Perhaps, Friday late night, we "cone" the chargers off for our event and get a firm idea of what we have to work with.

Next we need to check whether our show of support for Don's Market might inadvertently cause them headaches with demand charges.


Separate service., with its own tap from the transformer. Permitted for the whole thing.


There are a lot of contingencies. I'd be willing to participate in, or even to organize, a phone tree (and/or email/SMS bulletin) to notify people of a warning, change of venue, or cancellation. E.g., if we learned at the last minute that the QC was down, or one of the L2 was down, or if we only had one L2 splitter instead of three. Or will we count on MNL being up and look for a confirmation posting Saturday morning that everything is a Go before setting out?


Sure, maybe we'll register folks, so we can dedicate the correct amount charging time that each car would need to get home. Example:

Walter Cronkite - 52 miles each way, need 8 kWh
Sally Ride - 66 miles each way, need 2 kWh (charging at Tony's / Poway / Ramona) enroute

1. Tony Williams - 35 miles each way, no charging needed (zero kWh)
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
etc
 
1. Tony Williams - 35 miles each way, no charging needed (zero kWh)
2. Craig Bentley (I'm your Walter Cronkite example - 52 miles each way, need 8 kWh)
3.
4.
5.
6.
etc

If charging at Don's is impacted, I'll be prepared to put in some time coming back down the hill at Ramona or Poway.

Even if they get the QC running before 11/17, do you think we could get them to consider that a soft open, with the "grand opening" on 11/17? Perhaps we could get some press coverage, as well as possibly attendance by blink folks, to help insure the QC is working?
 
cbiwww said:
Even if they get the QC running before 11/17, do you think we could get them to consider that a soft open, with the "grand opening" on 11/17? Perhaps we could get some press coverage, as well as possibly attendance by blink folks, to help insure the QC is working?

That would be one angle!!!
 
For planning purposes, it will be useful to know how much charge one will need to make it from Ramona to Santa Ysabel since Ramona will have the last public charging until Santa Ysabel.

Here's the route - just under 16 mi and Google estimates 22 minutes which would be an average of 44 mph which I think is a bit quick, though some portions do reach 55 mph.

https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Main+St&daddr=CA-78+W%2FJulian+Rd&hl=en&sll=33.07572,-116.777802&sspn=0.271289,0.339546&geocode=FdYi-AEdOqUI-Q%3BFfg0-QEdnrIL-Q&oq=Sa&t=h&mra=prev&z=12" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GPS Visualizer says it's 1600 ft of elevation gain.

Using Tony's range chart one would expect about 3.7 kWh for the distance and another 2.4 kWh for the climb or about 6 kWh total or the equivalent of 26 miles on flat ground.

So I estimate that you'd need 3-bars minimum to make it from Ramona to Santa Ysabel. Someone double check my numbers?
 
1. Tony Williams - 35 miles each way, no charging needed (zero kWh)
2. Craig Bentley (I'm your Walter Cronkite example - 52 miles each way, need 8 kWh)
3. Jamie Edmonds/KMG-365 - 50 miles each way (SDSU area), need 2-8kWh (I can do Ramona/Poway, etc to get home)
4.
5.
6.
 
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