Official BMW i3 thread

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gergg said:
Hey Tom,

Any idea what price range the i3 leases will go for......I know crystal ball stuff, sorry, just so darn curious :D
A BMW ICE that costs about the same (47.5k pre tax credit & 7,500 down payment) will go for about $500.
 
A BMW ICE that costs about the same (47.5k pre tax credit & 7,500 down payment) will go for about $500.
Yeah, it will be interesting to see what kind of demand the i3 brings, wonder if we will see leases eventually come down like the LEAF, maybe not as low as a LEAF due to a higher sell price, but lease rates for the LEAF are much lower than a comparably priced ICE.
 
gergg said:
Hey Tom,

Any idea what price range the i3 leases will go for......I know crystal ball stuff, sorry, just so darn curious :D

It's would just be a total guess but you can look at similarly priced cars for comparison. Like GM & Nissan did, I'm sure the $7,500 tax credit will be used as a capitol cost reduction on the lease price so I would subtract that first and then figure out where you might be for a 3 year lease. In a few months we should have more solid info on all this of course.
 
gergg said:
A BMW ICE that costs about the same (47.5k pre tax credit & 7,500 down payment) will go for about $500.
Yeah, it will be interesting to see what kind of demand the i3 brings, wonder if we will see leases eventually come down like the LEAF, maybe not as low as a LEAF due to a higher sell price, but lease rates for the LEAF are much lower than a comparably priced ICE.

I think there is a good chance that would happen if there isn't the demand BMW expects. They are expecting to sell a lot of these and are aiming for ~30,000/yr. I do think if US sales are slower than expected there could be good deals to be had.
 
I think there is a good chance that would happen if there isn't the demand BMW expects. They are expecting to sell a lot of these and are aiming for ~30,000/yr. I do think if US sales are slower than expected there could be good deals to be had.
Yeah, even if the car gets a real 100 mile range I don't think they will sell the number they are hoping for. I am interested in this car if the numbers make sense.
 
gergg said:
I think there is a good chance that would happen if there isn't the demand BMW expects. They are expecting to sell a lot of these and are aiming for ~30,000/yr. I do think if US sales are slower than expected there could be good deals to be had.
Yeah, even if the car gets a real 100 mile range I don't think they will sell the number they are hoping for. I am interested in this car if the numbers make sense.

That's 30K worldwide, not US alone. It's going to be available everywhere BMW is.
 
gergg said:
Yeah, even if the car gets a real 100 mile range I don't think they will sell the number they are hoping for. I am interested in this car if the numbers make sense.
Will the REx option remove range anxiety and make people buy them in good numbers ? It will also be interesting to see what the dealers will do in the beginning.
 
evnow said:
gergg said:
Yeah, even if the car gets a real 100 mile range I don't think they will sell the number they are hoping for. I am interested in this car if the numbers make sense.
Will the REx option remove range anxiety and make people buy them in good numbers ?
I would think so. Plus having the white HOV sticker in California is a big deal. There isn't a day when someone doesn't ask me about the ActiveE. There is a sizeable BMW driving population here, and many expressed strong interest in a this car. While I don't know what they would say about i3's styling and design, many people I talked to are long-time BMW drivers, and they would purchase a green car tomorrow if they could. A certain percentage of those expressing interest in the car seems to like the lower operating cost more than anything. Also, my dealership reportedly had 32 people approved and on the waiting list for the ActiveE. Only nine cars were allocated last time I talked about it to the dealer. We shall see, as Tom said above...
 
evnow said:
gergg said:
Yeah, even if the car gets a real 100 mile range I don't think they will sell the number they are hoping for. I am interested in this car if the numbers make sense.
Will the REx option remove range anxiety and make people buy them in good numbers ? It will also be interesting to see what the dealers will do in the beginning.

What I'm really interested in finding out is what percentage of i3 buyers get the REx option. I hope BMW breaks that out but I'm thinking they will just release the total number of i3's sold monthly. Since the REx is an option they probably won't announce that info.
 
Benoit Jacob, Head of BMWi Design, discusses the interior of the i3 Coupe with John McElroy of Autoline. (via Todd Crook)

bmwi3mnl

Click to open
 
ELROY said:
How much does the trailer system weigh? Is it a Honda, Onan, Honeywell?
Do you know how much your range is reduced pulling it while it is off?
How many KW generator? Can you actually charge while driving, or just when parked?
It's a 30kW Capstone Microturbine, and it weighs well under 500lbs including fuel. It probably cuts into range about 10%-15% by having it there, but I've rarely towed it without running it, so that's a rough informed guess. It can charge while driving, maintain charge (power the motor), or charge while parked.

There's more info in the Range-Extender thread.

-Phil
 
Ingineer said:
... It can charge while driving, maintain charge (power the motor), or charge while parked...

-Phil

As any rational "range extender" would be expected to function, as discussed at:

The “range–extended” EV (BEVx) considered

A functional range extender would consist of:

A small displacement (200-600 CC) ICE generator, run at highest-efficiency rpm, to recharge the battery pack. Generator output would not be sufficient to drive the vehicle, just enough to extend the battery pack range to the next convenient recharge location.

It would not run on gasoline, but a less polluting, and more stable fuel, such as propane (easier refueling) or CNG (lower cost). 5 gallons of Propane, for example, would probably offer about 200 miles of range extension for a LEAF-sized BEV.

The fuel would also be available to a combustion cabin heater, the one use for which battery energy storage is particularly inefficient.

I think this could be integrated into the design of BEVs (and maybe even as a portable unit, and available for rent, as many have fantasized) at lower cost, and lower weight, than the huge battery packs some BEV manufactures seem to think are advisable.

So, say you are a San Francisco Bay Area resident. You usually keep the heater set to propane by default in the winter, extending the range by about 10% and reducing battery cycling accordingly, without even using the ICE feature. You refill the 5 gallon propane tank once a month or so, just to supply the heater.

When you want to take the BEV on the occasional longer drive, say to Tahoe for a weekend of skiing, instead of making 3 or 4 stops (with a 20-30 available kWh battery pack) for DC charges, you just turn on the ICE generator during your trip, as soon as your battery capacity drops to a level to efficiently accept charge, while you and your passengers are kept toasty warm by the propane heater. You stop for one 30 minute 80% DC charge at Auburn (120 miles in 2 hours of driving, about 20 kWh consumed from the battery pack, and 16 kWh used from the generator) and top-off the propane tank (you only used a few gallons) at the adjacent minimart. This is just enough generator-assisted charge to get you the last 80 miles over Donner Summit to your destination, but you never get “range anxiety" (or BEV "freeze anxiety" about road closures or delays, due to weather) as you know that if you get the “very low battery” warning, you can just pull off the road, and if there is no charge station (or only a L2) nearby, you can always find a place to stop for a short break, while you self-recharge for the last few miles, using your generator. And if you get stuck behind a semi that jackknifed in a snowstorm, closing the road, you can watch the generator add bars to your battery, as the propane heater keeps you and your passenger comfortable, while you wait for the road to be cleared...

I believe BMW may be the only manufacture currently contemplating this true ICE “range extender” option, for its BEVs...

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6847" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm disappointed that BMW has apparently gone for "compliance" with the idiotic (IMO) California BEVx standard rather than a more functional I3 design, which would allow you to use the ICE generator before you exhaust the battery.
 
edatoakrun said:
Ingineer said:
I'm disappointed that BMW has apparently gone for "compliance" with the idiotic (IMO) California BEVx standard rather than a more functional I3 design, which would allow you to use the ICE generator before you exhaust the battery.

Remember this is all speculation on how the range extender will perform. BMW has not offered ANY information on it other than to say they will offer a range extender as an option.
 
With the new LEAF pricing it will be interesting to see where the i3 comes in dollar-wise.
 
gergg said:
With the new LEAF pricing it will be interesting to see where the i3 comes in dollar-wise.

Honestly, $199 leases and a $28,800 to $36,00-ish price for the 2013 LEAF, with HUNDREDS of quick charging stations in the USA this year... that's strong.

But, don't underestimate the loyalty of BMW drivers, particularly here in California. Many will buy strictly on the brand. They will likely believe whatever grandiose scheme is told on the BMW/GM unique Frankenplug quick chargers (of which there are currently zero in the world).
 
TonyWilliams said:
Honestly, $199 leases and a $28,800 to $36,00-ish price for the 2013 LEAF, with HUNDREDS of quick charging stations in the USA this year... that's strong.

But, don't underestimate the loyalty of BMW drivers, particularly here in California. Many will buy strictly on the brand. They will likely believe whatever grandiose scheme is told on the BMW/GM unique Frankenplug quick chargers (of which there are currently zero in the world).
Yes. And as recent announcements have shown, and I count Tesla's super charger network rollout in this too, competition will be a very good thing for the EV market.
 
TonyWilliams said:
They will likely believe whatever grandiose scheme is told on the BMW/GM unique Frankenplug quick chargers (of which there are currently zero in the world).
Never bought a BMW before (we got angry with the attitude of one of their salesmen and walked out) - but if I get an i3, it would be with REx.
 
evnow said:
TonyWilliams said:
They will likely believe whatever grandiose scheme is told on the BMW/GM unique Frankenplug quick chargers (of which there are currently zero in the world).
Never bought a BMW before (we got angry with the attitude of one of their salesmen and walked out) - but if I get an i3, it would be with REx.

I've owned several BMW's, but I really don't have that BMW "thing". Yes, my next street bike would likely be a BMW, but that's because there really isn't much competition in the niche those bikes serve.

My 330 convertible was fun to drive, but an absolute maintenance HOG. I see all the problems that the ActiveE crowd is having with those cars, and I think I dodged a bigger bullet (by not leasing) than ditching my first LEAF before the market dropped.

I don't know how I really feel about any sub 100 mile EV, after driving a 100 ++ mile EV for a few months. The REx may or may not be the difference, but it surely won't be Frankenplug that sways me!!!
 
Prior to the LEAF, my most reliable car ever was a 2008 BMW 328i. Absolutely rock solid reliable over 3 years and 18k miles. I admit that I drove it fairly gently, but I definitely enjoyed the performance.

But like Tony, the reported major failure experiences of the ActiveE early adopter crowd really have my attention as I consider a future lease on an i3. I find it a bit hard to believe that BMW is really ready to mass produce this power train.
 
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