Official BMW i3 thread

[scottf200]

Of course, once there are one or more CHAdeMO's (probably long before any SAE DC's show up) between Vacaville and Red Bluff, the drive time advantage will shift back to my 2011 LEAF.

And once I reach the Bay area (or Ashland, Oregon, to the north) the DC's are already relatively plentiful today, while the I3 is (unfortunately) incapable of using them.

Sounds like chademo org is going to promote dual charging stations. Certainly that will help with the i3's success but the range extender just as much or more for the sales.

http://www.eenews.net/stories/1059984950

This was interesting too:

The CHAdeMO organization itself acknowledges that dual charging stations are the best route. "Many charger manufactures will be coming out this year with this dual charger and we are pleased to see that this will help service the full market," Kiho Ohga, a representative of the CHAdeMO Association, wrote in an email. "Whether it makes business sense to adopt both versus one is not a difficult decision to make by the investor."

 

[Boourns]

That's a tempting assumption, and one that most of us find ourselves thinking, but I speced out a base 60 Model S with options that I would have to have and I'd have to write a check for $85k including tax and all fees (includes leather, mid-grade paint, supercharging but no Tech package, extra charger, wall box or wheel/tire upgrade), and then wait for my rebates to get it down to $75k. If you option up an i3, it appears that it might max at $65k including all taxes and fees before rebates, and I think that's a stretch. So maybe still a minimum $20k difference.

The other big difference is that you can lease an i3 but not a Tesla, so you have to come up with the big bux up front.

EDIT I really think that it will be hard to hit $60k with a fully optioned i3 all in with taxes and fees, so we're talking at least $25k more for the Model S, and I bet it'll be closer to $30k difference for most of the i3 that are actually bought or leased, compared to a lightly optioned Model S 60.

Good point re the lease. The liquid cooled battery on the i3 would allay some fears that cause many Leaf-ers to lease, but given the general overall uncertainty of the next few years of the EV market, I would still probably choose to lease the i3.

As far as the cost, it will really depend on how much the two gizmo packages drive up the i3's cost. I think it would be unwise of BMW to allow the cost of an i3 to approach that of a stripped down Model S, so you are probably right. In the fantasy land where I have the money to buy outright a new EV, I would chose a basic Model S over the i3 if they were within $5,000 to $7,000 each of other.

 

[TomT]

Considering how much more car the Model S is than the I3, that $20K is actually a bargain. I can't really see myself considering the I3 at its prices...

So maybe still a minimum $20k difference.

 

[edatoakrun]

I got a smile when I heard this line in the intro:

...The i3, which starts at €34,950 in Germany, could lose €197 million a year on an operating basis, according to Thomas Besson, an analyst at French brokerage firm Kepler Cheuvreux.

Ian Robertson, BMW's global sales and marketing chief, said in London on Monday the company "would be profitable from day one on each vehicle it made." Other BMW executives said the i3's design drastically reduced the number of parts, allowing for savings on factory equipment. BMW also developed with a partner a lower cost form of carbon fiber specifically for automotive uses, company officials said.

Either way the car will earn emissions credits for BMW in markets such as California, reducing the likelihood that BMW will have to pay fines for failing to comply with carbon dioxide restrictions and giving BMW headroom under those rules to keep selling its more profitable internal combustion models...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323854904578635543525172364.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well, If Tesla is allowed to claim to be profitable on BEV sales, I suppose BMW should be allowed the same creative license...

 

[evnow]

Sounds like chademo org is going to promote dual charging stations.

Definitely there is a difference between "promote" and "we are pleased to see ". Ofcourse, CHAdeMO will "promote" dual stations in places where there would otherwise only be the Frankenplug (i.e. zero staions) not in places where there would only be CHAdeMO.

 

[epic]

just read that the i3 is going to have a 2 cylinder gas motor to extend miles /range to 186 miles.wonder why not farther ?Does anyone know how this will work ? Like a volt?

 

[KJD]

just read that the i3 is going to have a 2 cylinder gas motor to extend miles /range to 186 miles.wonder why not farther ?Does anyone know how this will work ? Like a volt?

There are several BMW EV drivers that post on this forum. They know this car inside and out.

In order to reduce range anxiety, a rear-mounted 650cc, 34 hp, two-cylinder, gasoline-powered Range Extender generator is available, which roughly doubles the vehicle’s range. When the battery gets to a certain level, the Range Extender starts and maintains the battery’s current state of charge. The Range Extender never directly drives the vehicle’s wheels. The Range Extender adds roughly 330 lbs. to the vehicle curb weight and has a fuel capacity of 2.4 gallons.

More details here.
http://bmwi3.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[jhm614]

just read that the i3 is going to have a 2 cylinder gas motor to extend miles /range to 186 miles. wonder why not farther?

The "why not farther" part has to do with a CARB regulation concerning gas tank size vs pure EV range. Details here: http://green.autoblog.com/2013/07/10/new-bmw-i3-details-show-ev-aiming-for-carb-hov-loophole/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I like the concept and looks of the i3, not sure about the REX. Either way, it looks like that even the base will be a few grand out of my reach. I guess it depends on the lease rates. (and the range of the next-gen leaf....)

 

[TomMoloughney]

just read that the i3 is going to have a 2 cylinder gas motor to extend miles /range to 186 miles.wonder why not farther ?Does anyone know how this will work ? Like a volt?

It will only have a 2.3 gallon gas tank. It's not meant to be driven for hundreds of miles in charge sustaining mode though. It's not to say you can't, you'll just have to refuel every 60-70 miles or so.

The range extender is really meant for two main proposes, not continuous long distance travel. One to alleviate the fear many new EV potential buyers have that they'll run out of charge and be stranded somewhere. That's a real problem getting potential buyers to try out their first EV. This removes that fear completely. Secondly it allows you to fully deplete your battery without worrying about running just short of your destination and allows you to drive well beyond what the battery charge alone will take you.

All the performance specs aren't available yet but Oliver Walter from BMW said yesterday that he wanted to end the speculation that the REx was a limp-home mode of driving because it's not, and that you'll barley notice any difference in performance unless you push the car hard. He said it will act similar to how the battery i3 acts once you get under 20% SOC, in which case the car slightly limits the power to the motor to conserve energy.

 

[TomT]

The Rex seemed like a reasonable idea when the price quoted was 2 grand extra. Now that we know the real much-higher price, it seems much less attractive and I highly doubt they'll get the 80% buy-in they were touting...

I like the concept and looks of the i3, not sure about the REX. Either way, it looks like that even the base will be a few grand out of my reach. I guess it depends on the lease rates. (and the range of the next-gen leaf....)

 

[Bicster]

I'm wondering what the higher trim levels will cost. I'm thinking this car will top out over 55k with the top trim and the REx.

 

[TomMoloughney]

I'm wondering what the higher trim levels will cost. I'm thinking this car will top out over 55k with the top trim and the REx.

I think it could be possible that that would mean 10k of options. Lets play:

Optional 20" wheels: $1,200
Top tier electronics package(Nav, park assist, adaptive cruise control, backup camera): $3,500
Top interior package (leather, wood trim) $1,500
Dual sunroof: $1,500
CCS Quick Charge: $950

That's $8,650 and all guesses but yeah you could probably get there if you tried to! Most base BMW's are priced with few options and you load it up. However if you really wanted one with the REx you could still buy one for and effective price of less than $40K after the federal tax credit.

 

[scottf200]

All the performance specs aren't available yet but Oliver Walter from BMW said yesterday that he wanted to end the speculation that the REx was a limp-home mode of driving because it's not, and that you'll barley notice any difference in performance unless you push the car hard. He said it will act similar to how the battery i3 acts once you get under 20% SOC, in which case the car slightly limits the power to the motor to conserve energy.

On paper it "smokes" the LEAF and the Volt in either electric or electric+REX.

Electric only(?): http://insideevs.com/bmw-releases-all-the-details-on-the-i3/
0-62 (100kph) - 7.2
0-30mph in 3.5 seconds,
0-60mph in approximately 7.0 seconds (preliminary).

REX: http://insideevs.com/bmw-i3-range-extender-to-offer-up-to-87-more-miles-decreases-performance/
Performance:
0-62 mph: 7.9 seconds (7.2 all-electric) - 100kpm
0-37 mph: 3.9 seconds (3.7 all-electric)
50-75 mph: 5.5 seconds (4.9 all-electric)

 

[Bicster]

I don't know. I really want to like this car, but it seems slightly impractical for my family of four.

In the plus column, there's the fact that it's RWD and probably a hoot to drive in real world situations. The battery will outlive the Leaf's by a significant margin in my local climate. There's a bunch of cool technology. It's ding-resistant and should crash-test well.

In the minus column, there's the size (small trunk space, only 4 seats), the price, the range (basically same as a Leaf).

I'm ignoring the REx because I don't really want to burn gas or have extra stuff to maintain. If I bought, I'd get the REx just for resale value, but I'd probably lease anyway.

Somewhere in between the two columns, the aluminum construction and CFRP body have me thinking this beast will cost a fortune to insure. There's little expertise in doing collision repairs. I'm reminded of a coworker who wrecked his Audi TT and had to have it trucked to Dallas for repairs because of the aluminum frame. The repairs took months. Add CFRP and EV technology and you end up with a car that's really easy to total out in a wreck. I'm glad BMW took the leap, though, because it's about time an auto manufacturer did, and further refinements and experience will bring CFRP auto bodies into the mainstream.

I don't have an EV yet, and I still really, really want one. But damn, it's compromises all over the place. I don't live in a compliance state and my choices are limited, and everything that's available just makes me wish Tesla's Gen 3 was closer. I don't know why BMW couldn't make something that was more like a BMW and with a lot more range.

Did the Prius manage to convince every automaker besides Tesla that consumers want their green cars to look weird?

I'm hopeful that the i3 will at least push down the price of the Volt and drum up some more demand for EV's.

 

[surfingslovak]

just read that the i3 is going to have a 2 cylinder gas motor to extend miles /range to 186 miles.wonder why not farther ?Does anyone know how this will work ? Like a volt?

Not all the details are known yet, but yes, it's a reasonable assumption that the REx i3 could be used in the same manner like a Volt. With the caveats that it uses a smaller generator engine and has a smaller gas tank, allegedly to comply with an upcoming CARB rule. A pure BEV version will be available at a lower price point. BMW Pours Out Official Specs on the i3

 

[evnow]

The Rex seemed like a reasonable idea when the price quoted was 2 grand extra. Now that we know the real much-higher price, it seems much less attractive and I highly doubt they'll get the 80% buy-in they were touting...

But, BMW drivers don't own, they lease.

It is a question of $50 a month vs $20 a month - I don't think it will affect the sales all that much. Ofcourse in my case, REx may add back the sales tax - so it will be extra $100 a month for me. That definitely affects my decision. If it was $50 (let alone $20) a month, it would be a no-brainer to get it - esp. if I'm buying this for my wife.

 

[Boomer23]

I'm wondering what the higher trim levels will cost. I'm thinking this car will top out over 55k with the top trim and the REx.

I think it could be possible that that would mean 10k of options. Lets play:

Optional 20" wheels: $1,200
Top tier electronics package(Nav, park assist, adaptive cruise control, backup camera): $3,500
Top interior package (leather, wood trim) $1,500
Dual sunroof: $1,500
CCS Quick Charge: $950

That's $8,650 and all guesses but yeah you could probably get there if you tried to! Most base BMW's are priced with few options and you load it up. However if you really wanted one with the REx you could still buy one for and effective price of less than $40K after the federal tax credit.

Thanks for starting the option list guessing game, Tom.

You're "da man", but I'd venture to say that your guesses are a bit low. The upgrade to the Tera "world" has to be at least $2k over the Mega. The 20" wheel upgrade will be at least $2k, I think. And I bet the full Tech and Parking will be around $3k. New word out of Germany puts the CCS charge option about double your guess. So I think that hitting $55k before taxes and fees and before rebates will be fairly easy if you want REx and all the toys.

 

[TomT]

I've owned three BMWs and bought every one of them... Because of all the unknowns, the I3 might be a different case, however, if I was actually considering it...

But, BMW drivers don't own, they lease.

 

[TomMoloughney]

I'm wondering what the higher trim levels will cost. I'm thinking this car will top out over 55k with the top trim and the REx.

I think it could be possible that that would mean 10k of options. Lets play:

Optional 20" wheels: $1,200
Top tier electronics package(Nav, park assist, adaptive cruise control, backup camera): $3,500
Top interior package (leather, wood trim) $1,500
Dual sunroof: $1,500
CCS Quick Charge: $950

That's $8,650 and all guesses but yeah you could probably get there if you tried to! Most base BMW's are priced with few options and you load it up. However if you really wanted one with the REx you could still buy one for and effective price of less than $40K after the federal tax credit.

Thanks for starting the option list guessing game, Tom.

You're "da man", but I'd venture to say that your guesses are a bit low. The upgrade to the Tera "world" has to be at least $2k over the Mega. The 20" wheel upgrade will be at least $2k, I think. And I bet the full Tech and Parking will be around $3k. New word out of Germany puts the CCS charge option about double your guess. So I think that hitting $55k before taxes and fees and before rebates will be fairly easy if you want REx and all the toys.

I don't think the 20" wheels will be 2k. The options pricing is available for the German market here is the link: http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=htt...88AAQEUrpszlP4T0HAQryxPQ8waeUB_hdnG_G970w&s=1

Remember, there will be things there than are optional in Germany that are standard in the US (like LED lighting) and the options are also priced less here - just about one dollar to one Euro. Take a look

 

[SanDust]

Review in Slate: http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/07/29/bmw_i3_review_electric_car_is_a_cheap_ugly_tesla_model_s_with_an_suv_on.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Agree with the review. I wanted to like it but simply don't. Looks like a Rocky Mountain Institute design exercise not a $55,000 car. Comparing it to the Leaf and the Volt, take out the range extender and you have a less functional Leaf for twice the price. Add the range extender and it's a Volt with less utility at a higher price. With or without the range extender it's not half as attractive as the Fiat 500e.
Of course it's faster than any of those cars. Not a speed demon though. If speed is your thing, compared to the Spark, you're paying almost $30,000 to get to 60 MPH .4 seconds faster. You'd pay a lot less per/10th with a Model S. With the range extender you're paying $30,000 more to go .3 seconds slower.