Official BMW i3 thread

[surfingslovak]

The range loss is a function of:

- higher Cd due to air intake and exhaust manifold
- higher mass
- 6.5% less usable battery capacity than the BEV (~5.25 miles)

The wider back tires also cause more drag.

True, good catch! The staggered setup is present on the Giga and Terra BEV trims too. The only difference is between the basic Mega BEV trim and the basic Mega REx trim. I'm not clear which configuration was tested for the Monroney label. The EPA typically requires the most common or expected setup, I believe.

 

[edatoakrun]

~100 pages back on this thread I posted my disappointment in the i3 BEVx.

The reality is, If I traded in my 2011 LEAF on one of these things, at the cost of over $30k, I would experience significant degradation of my electric range, and receive only the questionable benefit of an ICE back-up that could not drive my i3 the minimum speeds required to drive safely in mountainous terrain.

Rather sad, IMO, how BMW and CARB in coordination have so thoroughly botched the execution of a very promising concept.

The “range–extended” EV (BEVx) considered

...A functional range extender would consist of:

A small displacement (200-600 CC) ICE generator, run at highest-efficiency rpm, to recharge the battery pack. Generator output would not be sufficient to drive the vehicle, just enough to extend the battery pack range to the next convenient recharge location.

It would not run on gasoline, but a less polluting, and more stable fuel, such as propane (easier refueling) or CNG (lower cost). 5 gallons of Propane, for example, would probably offer about 200 miles of range extension for a LEAF-sized BEV.

The fuel would also be available to a combustion cabin heater, the one use for which battery energy storage is particularly inefficient....

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6847&hilit=power+trailer&start=180" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[eclecticflower]

I haven't been following this thread at all and for starters, please forgive my ignorance about this EV, what it's comprised of and how it runs, etc. (I'm still trying to find time to read up on it).

Last weekend, I won a 4-day free lease (4-day extended test drive) at our local National Drive Electric Week event (I was displaying my LEAF). My initial impressions are posted on our local Leaf in Kansas City thread here:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=8646&p=390316#p390316" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[surfingslovak]

I haven't been following this thread at all and for starters, please forgive my ignorance about this EV, what it's comprised of and how it runs, etc. (I'm still trying to find time to read up on it).

Last weekend, I won a 4-day free lease (4-day extended test drive) at our local National Drive Electric Week event (I was displaying my LEAF). My initial impressions are posted on our local Leaf in Kansas City thread here:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=8646&p=390316#p390316" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Congrats on winning the test drive! I just read your review, and I noticed that you were concerned about strong regen and the brake lights, which is often a point of contention. David Vottero, one of the SoCal i3 owners, was curious about this too, and has produced an authoritative YouTube video with the help of four GoPro cameras:


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXJPf7Lv8Sw[/youtube]

The QC capability, which is optional, consists of two DC pins below the normal level 2 inlet, and some additional in-vehicle harnesses and electronics.

 

[eclecticflower]

I haven't been following this thread at all and for starters, please forgive my ignorance about this EV, what it's comprised of and how it runs, etc. (I'm still trying to find time to read up on it).

Last weekend, I won a 4-day free lease (4-day extended test drive) at our local National Drive Electric Week event (I was displaying my LEAF). My initial impressions are posted on our local Leaf in Kansas City thread here:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=8646&p=390316#p390316" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Congrats on winning the test drive! I just read your review, and I noticed that you were concerned about strong regen and the brake lights, which is often a point of contention. David Vottero, one of the SoCal i3 owners, was curious about this too, and has produced an authoritative YouTube video with the help of four GoPro cameras:


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXJPf7Lv8Sw[/youtube]

The QC capability, which is optional, consists of two DC pins below the normal level 2 inlet, and some additional in-vehicle harnesses and electronics.

Surfingslovak, I really appreciate your providing the update on the brake lights (thank you, I feel much better now). I'm curious about the 2 pins on the i3 DCQC port upgrade. Never having been able to use a DCQC on my LEAF SL (nothing in the 4-state area) and never having seen one in person, I'm now wondering about the plug handle at those stations. That i3 port looks kind of frankinplug-ish. The DCQC EVSE handles in the pictures on this forum don't appear to have that...

Today's Test Drive Update: I drove to work without the radio on. Wow, big difference between i3 and my LEAF. Not exactly what I'd call quiet (I longed for the respite from sound that I get in my LEAF). I also checked out the crash tests (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2prYaASjqI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false and stats (4 of 5 stars) at http://www.euroncap.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Looks like it holds up pretty well, even in broad-side tests, where I had my biggest doubts. I didn't find where it has been tested by the IIHS. Forgive me if this info is already posted in this thread.

My only other issue with the vehicle now is...and I hate to say this...it smells...odd. It's not a good "new car" smell, either. :| Since the smell has hung on for the duration of my test, I no longer believe the BMW staffer ate an onion burger inside before rescinding it the day of my lease. Hopefully, over time, that goes away...otherwise, clip-on-vent air freshener?

 

[GRA]

The i3 uses CCS QC (known by some as Frankenplug), not CHAdeMO.

 

[TonyWilliams]

The i3 uses CCS QC (known by some as Frankenplug), not CHAdeMO.

In Japan, the BMW i3 uses CHAdeMO.

 

[GRA]

Surfingslovak, I really appreciate your providing the update on the brake lights (thank you, I feel much better now). I'm curious about the 2 pins on the i3 DCQC port upgrade. Never having been able to use a DCQC on my LEAF SL (nothing in the 4-state area) and never having seen one in person, I'm now wondering about the plug handle at those stations. That i3 port looks kind of frankinplug-ish. The DCQC EVSE handles in the pictures on this forum don't appear to have that...

The i3 uses CCS QC (known by some as Frankenplug), not CHAdeMO.

In Japan, the BMW i3 uses CHAdeMO.

Since the OP is in the U.S., this is irrelevant to her question.

 

[mkjayakumar]

In Japan, the BMW i3 uses CHAdeMO.

Interesting.. which makes me wonder why BMW didn't take the same route in the US given that we have close to zero Frakenplug EVSEs, but lot more Chademos.

 

[eclecticflower]

I turn in the car today, so I will drop that one on the sales rep. It's been an interesting ride.

 

[TomT]

I pick up mine for my three day extended test drive next week and am looking forward to the experience. Interestingly, they only use Rex vehicles for this, at least here...

I turn in the car today, so I will drop that one on the sales rep. It's been an interesting ride.

 

[eclecticflower]

I just returned from dropping off the i3 at the dealership and there was no attempt to sell it to me, which I appreciated. I touched base briefly on the combo plug, regarding having already waited over 2 years for "Chad" (supposed to be coming to the Kansas City area this year). It was a great experience getting to know a different EV. I liked it and recommended it, plus provided a summary of my review, which was well-received.

Kathy

 

[BestPal]

I picked up an orange/black i3 last night for a 3 day test drive. First impressions comparing to the leaf:
1. It DOES smell funny - they pride themselves for using a lot of recycled materials to build the i3... Hmmmmmmm
2. It's fast. I asked the BMW rep to race me in my Leaf in an empty parking lot next to the dealership and the leaf somewhat kept up with the beemer initially... up to about 30mph (the beemer had a passenger though), above that, the i3 walks away from the Leaf and doesn't look back. It's FAST!
3. One-foot driving is weird.. but I'm getting used to it and I like that amount of regen, it stops completely when you let off the pedal unless you're on the down-slope (even slightest) at the stop sign or stop light, then you need to touch the breaks to keep it from rolling forward. I know I know, you read that a million times. It's still weird to experience though. I like it.
4. Finally, adaptive cruise control is mind-blowing. On a two-lane highway you just setup your top speed and the car adjusts to the speed of the car in front of it. No gas, no breaks all the way to full stops. You just steer. It's kind of an unsettling driving experience at first to trust the car THAT MUCH... but I'm already getting used to it.
As much as I love my Leaf I have a feeling it's going to be hard to toss the keys back to the dealer. I'm sure sticker price will make that move easier though did I mention it was fast? ))

I'll try to do a follow up here in a couple of days.

 

[BestPal]

BTW what's up with the DC plug on i3? Dealer told me you can use Level 3's in the area. Dealer is obviously clueless. Is there some sort of adapter one could use?

 

[cwerdna]

BTW what's up with the DC plug on i3? Dealer told me you can use Level 3's in the area. Dealer is obviously clueless. Is there some sort of adapter one could use?

You and eclecticflower have firsthand experienced DC FC standards confusion: SAE Combo and in the US J1772 CCS aka Combo1. And, yes, that dealer was unfortunately clueless.

There are currently 3 incompatible DC FC standards in the US: Tesla Supercharger, CHAdeMO and SAE Combo in the form of Combo1. See http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5012#p5012" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for all the pics, including the other 3. The Frankenplug backers use Combo1 in North America vs. Combo2 on Europe.

There have been a bunch of i3 owners confused mistakenly thinking they could DC FC at Nissan dealers and/or there were a lot of compatible DC FCs around them. This will no doubt continue, affecting Spark EV owners and any other Combo1 cars that come out in the future (e.g. VW eGolf).

You can use http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5947#p5947" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; to find most/all of the Combo1 DC FCs, including a few pending ones in the US and then compare to the 700 CHAdeMO in the US per http://www.chademo.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=183351#p183351" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; was an example of our thoughts when heard of this unneeded standard. Players at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=279363#p279363" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and some updates follow.

And, if you haven't looked at sales numbers, see http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. The i3 and Spark EV are the only 2 currently sold vehicles in the US w/optional Combo1 inlets.

Nope. There's no adapter. We've discussed some of the issues of costs of such an adapter at http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8691#p8691" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

As for ACC, see http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=387901#p387901" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. I still see some reports of unwanted disengagement, accompanied by sudden very strong regen.

 

[Valdemar]

I'm curious what percentage of i3 and other SAE Combo equipped car buyers would have walked away had they realized their QC port will be mostly useless for quite some time.

 

[BestPal]

I'm curious what percentage of i3 and other SAE Combo equipped car buyers would have walked away had they realized their QC port will be mostly useless for quite some time.

The range extender virtually eliminates the need for DC FC.
Especially at today's average $10 per session for chademo stations around my area.
When in a pinch just put a couple of gal of gas and put-put home to your level 2 charger.
Buying an i3 at today's price point without the range extender really makes no sense to me personally.
Just get the Leaf then :roll: maybe it was BMW's plan all along when they were choosing the DC standard
@ cwerdna
Thank you for such an extensive reply regarding different standards!

 

[surfingslovak]

4. Finally, active cruise control is mind-blowing. On a two-lane highway you just setup your top speed and the car adjusts to the speed of the car in front of it. No gas, no breaks all the way to full stops. You just steer. It's kind of an unsettling driving experience at first to trust the car THAT MUCH... but I'm already getting used to it.

This feature is based on the technology from Mobileye. It's purely camera-based, and it suffers from some optical limitations. When the lens is directly exposed to sun rays or if the shadows thrown from overpasses resemble a passing vehicle, the ACC can disengage, since it cannot decisively address the situation.

So far, ACC has only been available on premium-cars, due to the high cost related to supporting RADAR technology. The exponential growth of vehicles equipped with monocular front vision sensors, together with the technological advances of vision processing, is allowing for the introduction of the Vision-Only ACC (VO-ACC) implementation by Mobileye. The first VO-ACC was launched by BMW on the 2013 i3 vehicle. This system will also include a Stop & Go and traffic JAM assist capability. From 2014 and onward multiple car manufacturers worldwide will begin to offer the VO-ACC as well. The current view is that ACC should be available in every vehicle.

Click to open

 

[surfingslovak]

I'm curious what percentage of i3 and other SAE Combo equipped car buyers would have walked away had they realized their QC port will be mostly useless for quite some time.

SAE CCS sites are springing up faster than I thought possible. There are two in the Bay Area, and the count in SoCal seems to be going up every month. Obviously, the gap between CHAdeMO and CCS sites is very considerable, but it might not stay that way. NRG wanted to deploy new and retrofit existing eVgo stations in order to provide 100 CCS sites in California by the end of 2015. While I'm not sure how much I should believe this announcement, if it comes anywhere close to that ballpark, California i3 drivers should be pretty well served.

Here is a sample discussion from our i3 Facebook group FAQ:

Seeking the group's wisdom on specs: how important is DCFC? I'm in Atlanta, where we currently only have one CCS (though I suspect more will be coming soon). My typical daily haul is ~10 mi, but on some days I'd be pushing max one-charge range. I do have an ICE available for days when range would be an issue. I've been thinking DCFC is a must-have for future proofing, but I'm also thinking I probably will move on to another EV (BMW or Tesla) in 3 years, so this wouldn't be a 10-year purchase for me...
Thoughts?

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When we ordered the REx we didn't originally get the DCFC, however BMW gave it to us (Electronauts) with our EE package, and I'm glad they did. The chargers will be coming online, and when we used one for our 278 mile day, it allowed us to only use the REx for 38 miles, as opposed to 138 miles at 31 mpg.

Click to open

There has been a huge amount of change over the last year. With BMW's new low cost CCS, the number of installs will increase even quicker than chademo. I don't think ~$700 is a huge amount of money compared to the rest of the car.

Click to open

Get it! In 2011 there were only 1500 level 2 chargers in the entire U.S. Today there are over 23,000. Your car will be easier to sell to a third party with this feature. I got it on mine and there are currently zero in Chicago.

Click to open

 

[Berlino]

SAE CCS sites are springing up faster than I thought possible.

There will be about ten of them in Quebec by year's end (in dual-standard stations.)

The funny thing is that there is only one i-dealer in Quebec. British Columbia and Ontario have 3-4 BMW dealers certified i, but no CCS.

The end of the year tally will look something like

10 Dual DCQC
1 Single-Standard CHAdeMO
~1,000 CHAdeMO ready cars
~50 i3s and 20 Spark EVs