Official Ford Focus Electric Thread

[palmermd]

Here are a couple somewhat active forums....no one reported ordering in either one....

http://www.myfocuselectric.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=83991165fca276cc0250cb3f153fe985" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://fordfocuselectric.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=8&sid=7f246d57911c765a3d38fc326905c8c0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Certainly not active forums. Since Nov 1st there have been a total of about 12 threads which have postings, and half of those are spam threads which have not been deleted. Every single post about ordering and pricing are that people are disappointed in the price and did not order and are now looking for alternatives.

DOA

 

[evnow]

I would like to see a report of anyone actually placing an ordr sucessfully with a Ford dealer in a launch market!

we should be seeing reports in the Focus forum of orders


shouldnt we? :|

Yet to see anyone placing an order. Someone in ABG said the dealer wanted a $10K premium - and they just ordered Leaf.

I can see a surge un Leaf orders with all the fence sitters making up their minds.

 

[electricfuture]

The Focus is no competition for the Leaf due to its small size, interior space and reduced cargo area the general public is looking for in an everyday about town car to commute, haul groceries and children with their toys. Secondly there is no way that Focus handing can be better that the Leaf. All real sport cars try to obtain a 50/50 front rear weight ratio for stable handling which the Leaf has. The Focus trunk batteries cannot be compensated by suspension fixes.

Then there is the women factor. In general they are looking for a taller car with a larger interior space to feel safer and the Focus is short and its interior “compact”. They are not interested in “superior sound systems” or handling but want those fold down seats to throw their kid’s surf board in the back.

I agree that Ford is just doing this for CARB and to get in the game. Ford changed the world with the Model T – now they need to change it again with a low cost “skate” design electrc car for the masses maybe with carbon fiber. Pick your body style and interior options online. Everything would be available as long as it is black, uh I mean as long as it fits on the skate.

By the way most of the future Leafs will be made in America starting next year (Tennessee) including the batteries. You can already order the battery heating system (extra) and 120—150 range batteries will be out in 2 years. Game over!

 

[scottf200]

I would like to see a report of anyone actually placing an ordr sucessfully with a Ford dealer in a launch market!
we should be seeing reports in the Focus forum of orders
shouldnt we? :|

Yet to see anyone placing an order. Someone in ABG said the dealer wanted a $10K premium - and they just ordered Leaf.
I can see a surge un Leaf orders with all the fence sitters making up their minds.

Not being a smarta$$ but perhaps for the Volt as well as those who were waiting on the Ford announcement but didn't like the LEAF for reasons x,y,z.

 

[EVDRIVER]

The Focus is no competition for the Leaf due to its small size, interior space and reduced cargo area the general public is looking for in an everyday about town car to commute, haul groceries and children with their toys. Secondly there is no way that Focus handing can be better that the Leaf. All real sport cars try to obtain a 50/50 front rear weight ratio for stable handling which the Leaf has. The Focus trunk batteries cannot be compensated by suspension fixes.

Then there is the women factor. In general they are looking for a taller car with a larger interior space to feel safer and the Focus is short and its interior “compact”. They are not interested in “superior sound systems” or handling but want those fold down seats to throw their kid’s surf board in the back.

I agree that Ford is just doing this for CARB and to get in the game. Ford changed the world with the Model T – now they need to change it again with a low cost “skate” design electrc car for the masses maybe with carbon fiber. Pick your body style and interior options online. Everything would be available as long as it is black, uh I mean as long as it fits on the skate.

By the way most of the future Leafs will be made in America starting next year (Tennessee) including the batteries. You can already order the battery heating system (extra) and 120—150 range batteries will be out in 2 years. Game over!

Myself and many people I know have no desire for a "family" type car, we want city cars that park easily and that are shorter than the LEAF and offer more performance. I know several people who passed on the LEAF because it is to long and personally I have no need for a four door car. I would even give up range for this if I got more of what I wanted. In parts of Europe and some US cities small cars are far better for many people and commuters.

 

[evnow]

Myself and many people I know have no desire for a "family" type car, we want city cars that park easily and that are shorter than the LEAF and offer more performance. I know several people who passed on the LEAF because it is to long and personally I have no need for a four door car. I would even give up range for this if I got more of what I wanted. In parts of Europe and some US cities small cars are far better for many people and commuters.

I'm sure there is a small market for sub-compacts / 2 door cars. But Focus EV isn't targeting that - may be Mitsu i. FFE is about the same size as a Leaf (slightly shorter but wider).

 

[electricfuture]

Myself and many people I know have no desire for a "family" type car

Yes but people like yourself do not represent the masses. We need EVs for the common man (or women) to change the tide from ICE's.

 

[Herm]

Yes but people like yourself do not represent the masses. We need EVs for the common man (or women) to change the tide from ICE's.

Exactly, they want an extended cab type pickup.. that can carry a standard sheet of plywood and tow 10k lbs.. and dont forget the 150 miles of range on the batteries. If you dislike pickups substitute a large SUV. BTW, cost should not be much more above the ICE version.

Otherwise why are the Ford F150 and GM/GMC versions such popular vehicles in sales?

 

[scottf200]

Yes but people like yourself do not represent the masses. We need EVs for the common man (or women) to change the tide from ICE's.

Exactly, they want an extended cab type pickup.. that can carry a standard sheet of plywood and tow 10k lbs.. and dont forget the 150 miles of range on the batteries. If you dislike pickups substitute a large SUV. BTW, cost should not be much more above the ICE version. Otherwise why are the Ford F150 and GM/GMC versions such popular vehicles in sales?

Even more basic they want to be comfortable with heating and cooling. Certainly the masses will have no interesting in watching every kW trickling as they "freeze" (especially this) or "sweat". One LEAF owner talked about his kW usage vs his wife. He stated she wanted to drive it like a "normal car".

 

[evnow]

Even more basic they want to be comfortable with heating and cooling. Certainly the masses will have no interesting in watching every kW trickling as they "freeze" (especially this) or "sweat". One LEAF owner talked about his kW usage vs his wife. He stated she wanted to drive it like a "normal car".

The problem is - people apparently don't understand what costs a lot - batteries. Rest of the convenience & comfort stuff doesn't cost much (even though those options in ICE cars are expensive since margins are high) - but are needed to sell as an alternative to ICE. People aren't going to spend $10K more and get a $30K car that doesn't have simple features that are in a $20k car.

Ofcourse FFE has perhaps outdone by tagging on too many features. But I bet those features don't cost much either - they first decided how much they want to sell the car for - and decided what cheap features to put in their to say FFE is "better" than Leaf.

 

[scottf200]

Even more basic they want to be comfortable with heating and cooling. Certainly the masses will have no interesting in watching every kW trickling as they "freeze" (especially this) or "sweat". One LEAF owner talked about his kW usage vs his wife. He stated she wanted to drive it like a "normal car".

The problem is - people apparently don't understand what costs a lot - batteries. Rest of the convenience & comfort stuff doesn't cost much (even though those options in ICE cars are expensive since margins are high) - but are needed to sell as an alternative to ICE. People aren't going to spend $10K more and get a $30K car that doesn't have simple features that are in a $20k car. Ofcourse FFE has perhaps outdone by tagging on too many features. But I bet those features don't cost much either - they first decided how much they want to sell the car for - and decided what cheap features to put in their to say FFE is "better" than Leaf.

I presume you are referring to the features at the end of your table in this comparison:
Leaf vs Focus Electric - Features Compared
I think some may question features in the middle of the table as well tho and that Ford purposefully left off the FFE (ie. PV spoiler, quick charge, etc)

Nice job on the table by the way. Your stuff is quick/easy to read.

 

[padamson1]

I decided last year that I wanted an EV and my first choice was the vaporware FFE b/c I liked the thermal battery support, 6.6kW charger, Sync GUI, and the good looks of the car. I also (erroneously) figured the FFE would be cheaper than the LEAF b/c I bought into the idea of the shared platform reducing costs and the external EV technology saving them R&D investments.

Just in case, I ordered my LEAF in May, fully expecting to cancel the order before my LEAF would be delivered when the FFE was announced. However Ford gave no hints of a release date all summer which I interpreted as them not taking the EV market seriously so I decided it wasn't worth waiting for them.

Now that Ford's announced the thing, I am glad I got my LEAF. $5k more for the features that interested me, less space inside, and more than likely less range, doesn't cut it. Clearly Ford is not buying into EV's taking off anytime soon or they would have more closely matched Nissan's price to establish market share.

The question to me is how long before Nissan raises their prices?

 

[evnow]

I think some may question features in the middle of the table as well tho and that Ford purposefully left off the FFE (ie. PV spoiler, quick charge, etc)

The stuff in SL vs SV are not very useful - except for the camera and ofcourse QC. Ford, GM and others for some reason, I'd say non-technical, decided not to endorse and use CHADEMO. Since the new standard is no where near ready - that meant no QC in FFE.

 

[Rusty]

Since the new standard is no where near ready - that meant no QC in FFE.

It looks like GM's Spark may have SAE QC, and it's nearly contemporary with the FFE. Maybe Ford just decided 20-25mph charging was fast enough, but it sure seems like they should have picked one or the other.

 

[evnow]

It looks like GM's Spark may have SAE QC, and it's nearly contemporary with the FFE. Maybe Ford just decided 20-25mph charging was fast enough, but it sure seems like they should have picked one or the other.

Spark is a pure CARB play - very small numbers. I don't think it is getting released in Q1 '12. May be Q4 ?

 

[Rusty]

Spark is a pure CARB play - very small numbers. I don't think it is getting released in Q1 '12. May be Q4 ?

No argument there. At this price and distribution, the FFE isn't? Point was it looks like the Spark may be plumbed for SAE QC, and the equally CARB play FFE isn't. I still think it could have been, even if Ford didn't go with CHAdeMO.

 

[evnow]

No argument there. At this price and distribution, the FFE isn't?

I don't think so - since it will be available all over US. Looks to me the pure CARB play are
- Toyota RAV4EV
- Toyota iQ EV
- Honda Fit EV
- Chrysler/Fiat 500 EV
- GM Spark EV

Point was it looks like the Spark may be plumbed for SAE QC, and the equally CARB play FFE isn't. I still think it could have been, even if Ford didn't go with CHAdeMO.

How can they - when the std is not finalized (do they even have samples?).

ps : I'd not assume Spark EV will have QC. I'd wait for atleast a prototype Spark EV.

 

[scottf200]

How can they - when the std is not finalized (do they even have samples?).

July 2011 newsletter: http://www.sae.org/standardsdev/news/P111164.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This standard is estimated to be approved and released around the beginning of 2012

SAE's J1772 'combo connector' for ac and dc charging advances with IEEE's help
12-Aug-2011 14:04 GMT
http://www.sae.org/mags/sve/rgstd/10128" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In the first quarter of next year[2012], SAE plans to establish a standard, integrated coupler that would allow electric vehicles and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (EVs/PHEVs) to be charged from either a conventional 15-A ac wall outlet or a dc connector of up to 90 kW.
<snip>
SAE J1772 goes further still by uniquely defining communications between an EV/PHEV, off-board charger, and the smart grid. Power Line Communications (PLC) is defined in SAE J1772 as the technology for enabling these vehicle-to-grid communications, without requiring changes such as the addition of another pin to the coupler architecture.

That's where IEEE comes in. PLC implementations <snip>
The drive toward an SAE J1772 combo solution illustrates the need for the strategic partnership recently forged by the IEEE-SA and SAE—and, more broadly, the coordination across historically disparate technology spaces and organizations that is demanded by the smart grid.

 

[evnow]

How can they - when the std is not finalized (do they even have samples?).

July 2011 newsletter: http://www.sae.org/standardsdev/news/P111164.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This standard is estimated to be approved and released around the beginning of 2012

Thanks for the link.

My guess is a manufacturer would need 6 to 12 months of lead time before they can incorporate a new port. There is also the s/w that needs to be written and tested.

BTW, I'd also hesitate to pay for a new port with no public infrastructure even discussed. We know even with approved money this kind of an infrastructure can take a long time to materialize.

 

[TimeHorse]

The question to me is how long before Nissan raises their prices?

They already did!!

I mean, for $1,900 they could have at least offered it in green!! :roll: