Official Mercedes B-class EV thread

[TomT]

True. The only hope that will have with Frankenplug is a QC at every dealership...

Equally important is what the range is two or three years down the road. This is where the Leaf has truly been a failure but I expect the MB to do well...

Even at "only" 6.6, you would likely still be ahead time-wise due to the greater range... QC is nice but range will trump QC every time...

And the chances they'll use Chademo or Tesla Supercharging are low. There won't be many quick charging stations available for it even if they do add quick charging.

 

[Valdemar]

Even at "only" 6.6, you would likely still be ahead time-wise due to the greater range... QC is nice but range will trump QC every time...

Depends on the range and the trip distance. As the distance starts to exceed car's effective range QC provides significant time saving considering access to chargers is a non-issue (will it ever be?). A 200-mile trip in a (new) Leaf with QC will take approx. 2 hrs less than in a B-class. A 150-mile trip will take 1hr less in a Leaf. The trips where the Benz will have an advantage is between 75 to 130 miles, i.e. where it can go w/o the need to be plugged in unlike the Leaf.

 

[TomT]

Frankly, anything beyond 150 or so miles, we'll take the ICE anyway...

A 200-mile trip in a (new) Leaf with QC will take approx. 2 hrs less than in a B-class. A 150-mile trip will take 1hr less in a Leaf. The trips where the Benz will have an advantage is between 75 to 130 miles, i.e. where it can go w/o the need to be plugged in unlike the Leaf.

 

[GRA]

Review of B-Class at Green Car Reports, which includes the following:

"There's a little trick, however. If you check the box for the so-called Range Plus option, you open up an extra 3 kWh of battery capacity—temporarily raising it to 31 kWh, to allow an added range of approximately 15 percent (about 8 miles, although Mercedes-Benz says up to 18 miles under ideal conditions).

"That added capacity is 'activated' by pressing a physical button on the dash before you charge the car.

"The feature is meant for occasional use, Mercedes says, and it won't affect battery life or the car's efficiency; it also isn't included in the official range figures. As part of this package, the Electric Drive will also gain an electric windshield and increased thermal insulation in the doors.

"Mercedes will offer a Battery Energy Plus warranty, which guarantees against defects and loss of capacity (no more than 30 percent lost here), and brings no-cost maintenance and roadside assistance—all for eight years or 100,000 miles."

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1091871_2014-mercedes-benz-b-class-electric-drive-first-drive/page-3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sounds to me like the capacity warranty is extra.

 

[KeiJidosha]

"If you think you might want a slap of extra juice when plugging in your B for the next day’s errands, you can opt for the Range Plus package. At the press of a button during charging, Range Plus adds about 15 percent to the battery’s capacity, for an estimated 14 additional miles of range."

First Drive: 2014 Mercedes-Benz B-class Electric Drive

 

[nosuchthing]

Germans just don't get our mentality. I'd be pressing that extended charge button with every charge to get the max out of that car.

Now, 85 miles out of a 28 kW battery calculates as 3.0 mi/kW. What gives here? Too heavy? I was hoping for about 3.7 mi/kW.

 

[GRA]

"If you think you might want a slap of extra juice when plugging in your B for the next day’s errands, you can opt for the Range Plus package. At the press of a button during charging, Range Plus adds about 15 percent to the battery’s capacity, for an estimated 14 additional miles of range."

First Drive: 2014 Mercedes-Benz B-class Electric Drive

Not to mention a "Plebean Shade of Benziness". Sigh. We plebeian spellers would appreciate it if they used a spiel- chucker.

Germans just don't get our mentality. I'd be pressing that extended charge button with every charge to get the max out of that car.

Now, 85 miles out of a 28 kW battery calculates as 3.0 mi/kW. What gives here? Too heavy? I was hoping for about 3.7 mi/kW.

3,900 lb. vs. a LEAF's 3,375(?)

 

[padamson1]

Just put money down on a B-Class EV to replace my LEAF when its lease runs out.

Pluses:
- 100mi range (probably more given what I've read http://insideevs.com/is-mercedes-be...igger-battery-pack-in-b-class-electric-drive/ or http://insideevs.com/breaking-mercedes-benz-b-class-electric-drive-gets-optional-range-package/)
- Heated windshield (so I don't need to use an inefficient defroster in humid Pacific NW winter)
- Great backseat legroom
- Proven Tesla technology,
- Same lease deal as LEAF (Fed Credit taken off Lease base cost).

Minuses:
- Never liked the road feel of an Benz made for US, European models drive fine, same car in US drives like a truck.
- Pricey (but certainly cheaper than a Tesla)
[edit]- No QC. Not a big deal for me as I rarely use it, but it is nice to have some times.[/edit]

The Demo car is due in town soon. I will post pictures and experience feedback then.

 

[cwerdna]

Pluses:
...
- Proven Tesla technology,

Proven? Let's just hope that Tesla's got their drive unit reliability problems sorted out. Mainly it's noise for Rav4 EV and Model S folks. For some Model S folks, it's outright failure.

For Model S folks, it often includes failure of something in the HV battery pack which have been very rare (it seem)s for Rav4 EV folks.

 

[ampitupco]

I was interested in this car but... geez.. to option it out like my current LEAF makes it a bit pricey. Plus, no heated steering wheel!

http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/vehicles/build/class-B/model-BED#tab=tab-exterior" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[pkulak]

I was interested in this car but... geez.. to option it out like my current LEAF makes it a bit pricey. Plus, no heated steering wheel!

http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/vehicles/build/class-B/model-BED#tab=tab-exterior" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Exactly. If a car is going to cost far more than a Leaf, it better have far more range too. 20 more miles isn't going to really move the needle for me. Especially with no DC charging.

 

[padamson1]

I was interested in this car but... geez.. to option it out like my current LEAF makes it a bit pricey. Plus, no heated steering wheel!

http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/vehicles/build/class-B/model-BED#tab=tab-exterior" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Exactly. If a car is going to cost far more than a Leaf, it better have far more range too. 20 more miles isn't going to really move the needle for me. Especially with no DC charging.

That build Option pricing page was not accurate. I have everything but the heated steering wheel for $47k. However I do need to edit my minuses, I forgot their is no QC on the B-Class. However I don't use QC that often and since it has 6.6kW charging maybe it won't matter.

If the range really is 110mi, that's more than a 20mi bump for me, I've never beat 80mi in real driving.

 

[evnow]

- Proven Tesla technology,
- Same lease deal as LEAF (Fed Credit taken off Lease base cost).

Proven to be unreliable ?

Where do you see the lease deal ?

 

[TonyWilliams]

since it has 6.6kW charging maybe it won't matter.

The Mercedes B Class ED onboard charger is 10kW (40 amps * 250 volts). Yes, at normal public charge stations, you'll only have 6.2kW available (30 amps * 208 volts).

My initial guess was similar economy to the LEAF, however at the increased weight over a LEAF, it will likely be lower. So, I'll guess 10% less than a LEAF at 65mph, or about 3.6 miles per kWh for the B Class ED. With the following potential pack sizes, you get the following ranges:


33.0kWh usable - 119 miles
31.0kWh usable - 111 miles
28.0kWh usable - 100 miles


Nissan LEAF will go 84 miles (21kWh * 4 miles per kWh).

 

[nosuchthing]

I wish Mercedes was smart enough to put the charging port in the front. Why do some of these car makers keep trying to pretend it's ICE when it isn't?

 

[padamson1]

- Proven Tesla technology,
- Same lease deal as LEAF (Fed Credit taken off Lease base cost).

Proven to be unreliable ?

Where do you see the lease deal ?

None my friends who own Teslas have had problems with their batteries or drive train. That's not to say they aren't concerned by the Edmunds report documenting issues every 10k miles, but they've all got 20-40k miles and no issues, maybe b/c most have being doing tire rotation and wheel alignments to pre-emptively avoid those issues.

The SmartCar EV lease has the tax rebate deducted from the car price. Mercedes salesman couldn't guarantee it, but was confident it would be the same deal. May be false, may be true, I'm assuming the latter b/c they already do it for the SmartCar EV. The B-Class is only available in 10 states (CA, CT, ME, MD, MA, NJ, NY, OR, RI and VT) right now, it'll take awhile before we know exactly what the lease offer is...

 

[cwerdna]

- Proven Tesla technology,
- Same lease deal as LEAF (Fed Credit taken off Lease base cost).

Proven to be unreliable ?

Where do you see the lease deal ?

None my friends who own Teslas have had problems with their batteries or drive train. That's not to say they aren't concerned by the Edmunds report documenting issues every 10k miles, but they've all got 20-40k miles and no issues, maybe b/c most have being doing tire rotation and wheel alignments to pre-emptively avoid those issues.

Wheel alignments and tire rotations don't aren't preventive maintenance against drive unit noise and/or failure, something failing inside the battery pack (contactor or fuse?) or pumps failing.

Noise at http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-test/2013-tesla-model-s-ominous-noise.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; caused Edmunds' drive unit to be replaced: http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-test/2013-tesla-model-s-ominous-noise-fixed.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-test/2013-tesla-model-s-stuck-on-the-freeway.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; caused http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-test/2013-tesla-model-s-is-the-third-drive-unit-the-charm.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; necessitating a 2nd replacement drive unit, 12 volt and HV battery pack.

There are these, for example:
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/29834-Drive-Unit-Replacement-Poll" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (ignore the answer of 5+ due to http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/29834-Drive-Unit-Replacement-Poll/page5?p=630805&viewfull=1#post630805" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/27853-That-very-loud-and-painful-clunk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/27941-Main-Battery-Replacement" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/27941-Main-Battery-Replacement?p=589711&viewfull=1#post589711" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/25766-Tesla-wants-to-replace-my-drive-unit-900-miles-on-car" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/26887-Stranded-Feeling-like-George-Clooney/page3?p=571247&viewfull=1#post571247" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/26887-Stranded-Feeling-like-George-Clooney/page4?p=588608&viewfull=1#post588608" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/10398-Model-S-Technical-Mechanical-Issues/page240?p=620031&viewfull=1#post620031" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/29765-Sounds-like-I-am-driving-a-souped-up-Honda-Civic?p=629544&viewfull=1#post629544" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/29937-Sound-at-high-power?p=631428&viewfull=1#post631428" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/28468-Hum-Going-Over-70-MPH?p=602270&viewfull=1#post602270" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/19785-Car-delivered-yesterday-died-10-times-today-stranding-my-family/page7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/21238-Main-Battery-and-12V-battery-failure-in-the-middle-of-the-intersection" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/21238-Main-Battery-and-12V-battery-failure-in-the-middle-of-the-intersection/page2?p=437259&viewfull=1#post437259" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/21238-Main-Battery-and-12V-battery-failure-in-the-middle-of-the-intersection/page2?p=436225&viewfull=1#post436225" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/21238-Main-Battery-and-12V-battery-failure-in-the-middle-of-the-intersection/page5?p=440118&viewfull=1#post440118" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There are numerous other threads. Some of those affected Tesla's biggest defenders and/or fanboys. Being one doesn't make one's car miraculously more reliable. Quite a few Rav4 EV drive units have been replaced per threads myrav4ev.com (many are mentioned at http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=251&sid=564162e55eae13c458f2155c042bad2f" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false, which is troubling considering the tiny installed base.

 

[evnow]

None my friends who own Teslas have had problems with their batteries or drive train. That's not to say they aren't concerned by the Edmunds report documenting issues every 10k miles, but they've all got 20-40k miles and no issues, maybe b/c most have being doing tire rotation and wheel alignments to pre-emptively avoid those issues.

MBED is closest to RAV4EV - that have a terrible reputation for reliability.

 

[aarond12]

From what I've read, the problems with the RAV4-EV is a computer communications problem between the Tesla computer and the Toyota computer. This doesn't mean the Tesla hardware is unreliable -- just that there is a programming issue with one or both of the computers.

 

[TonyWilliams]

From what I've read, the problems with the RAV4-EV is a computer communications problem between the Tesla computer and the Toyota computer. This doesn't mean the Tesla hardware is unreliable -- just that there is a programming issue with one or both of the computers.

Sorry, but there are far more problems than that with Rav4 EV. Like the earliest Model S cars, many Rav4 EV's have had the entire motor / inverter / gear box replaced, the heater fails, the DC to DC fails, there are numerous software "features" like the 31st day of the month when the charge timer didn't work.

The fuel gauge only goes to 80%, I can't select 100% without first turning the car on and then turning it off so that I can then select 100% charge, the cars die and won't restart, plus plenty of other quirks.

It was rushed, it's sloppy, and it shows very clearly that not only were they only interested in quickly satisfying 2012-2014 CARB-ZEV rules, but that Toyota doesn't even like battery electric cars.