Official smart fortwo electric drive thread

[redLEAF]

Found this quite interesting ... a few quotes from smart on the electric drive model:

“If your battery goes below 80 percent efficiency, they will replace it,” Matura said.

Matura said that in Europe almost 97% of the customers chose to rent the lithium ion battery.
“We thought, why not offer the same in the U.S.?” she said.

http://www.inautonews.com/customers...-the-smart-fortwo-electric-drive#.UWg596Ksh8E

 

[RegGuheert]

“If your battery goes below 80 percent efficiency, they will replace it,” Matura said.

Whatever that means. :roll:

 

[redLEAF]

“If your battery goes below 80 percent efficiency, they will replace it,” Matura said.

Whatever that means. :roll:

What's not to understand ... battery loss has been a problem with the LEAF in hot climates; sometimes dropping to only 70% in a single year???

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8802

The smart electric drive Gen II already has a battery cooling feature as evidenced by this post from an AZ owner; can only imagine the Gen III will have tweaked this some more as it has better capacity, etc. it's just taking its sweet time getting to the U.S.

Quote:
This was the smart electric drive on a hot August day. Outside temp about 110 degrees, car reading 127 because of the hot asphalt (I took this while in stop-and-go traffic on the highway). I had the Air Conditioning on, and the car was doing just fine. You'll notice the performance bars are not at 100% - this is likely because the battery cooling system was working hard to keep the car running well. I have not had the same battery depletion issues as the Nissan Leaf - and I think a lot of that has to do with the active/liquid cooling system on the battery.

 

[RegGuheert]

What's not to understand ...

What's not to understand is the term "battery efficiency."

...battery loss has been a problem with the LEAF in hot climates; sometimes dropping to only 70% in a single year???

The issue with the LEAF is loss of battery capacity.

 

[redLEAF]

What's not to understand ...

What's not to understand is the term "battery efficiency."

...battery loss has been a problem with the LEAF in hot climates; sometimes dropping to only 70% in a single year???

The issue with the LEAF is loss of battery capacity.

ef·fi·cien·cy [ih-fish-uhn-see] Show IPA
noun, plural ef·fi·cien·cies.

1. the state or quality of being efficient; competency in performance.
2. accomplishment of or ability to accomplish a job with a minimum expenditure of time and effort: The assembly line increased industry's efficiency.
3. the ratio of the work done or energy developed by a machine, engine, etc., to the energy supplied to it, usually expressed as a percentage.

Thesaurus examples for 'capacity':

capacity - the maximum production possible; "the plant is working at 80 per cent capacity"

While the two terms aren't interchangeable and perhaps we need to see the actual text of the guarantee, one could assume they're referring to the battery no longer holding 80% charge so once it drops below this number, they'll replace it -- proof will be in the measurement, etc. as expressed on the car as to what it's range to empty will be once the battery is fully charged. With smart having a battery cooling system, they're assuming less degradation than with only air cooled and certainly long enough for the length of the battery rental/lease; I don't think the wording is intentional on NOT replacing the battery if it falls below 80%.

 

[Volusiano]

I heard the 2009 version has a top speed limit of 62 mph. That may be a deal breaker to many people if the 2013 version has the same top speed.

But on the other hand, driving at 62 mph in a small car like this can be a hairy ride already and you don't want to go any faster.

 

[mwalsh]

But on the other hand, driving at 62 mph in a small car like this can be a hairy ride already and you don't want to go any faster.

Not hairy, my man...exhilarating!

 

[redLEAF]

But on the other hand, driving at 62 mph in a small car like this can be a hairy ride already and you don't want to go any faster.

Not hairy, my man...exhilarating!

even much more so in a convertible with the top down ... top speed for a Gen III expected to be about 120 km/H or 75 MPH ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_electric_drive

we've had our '08 ICE smart coupe keep up fine with highway traffic but have't ever driven it at it's top speed (a possibly surprising 90 MPH) but this one will do 96 MPH ! talk about your pocket rockets ---

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/smart-fortwo/ke1744.html

 

[redLEAF]

From a soon-to-be smart fortwo electric drive buyer ... quote from a local smart dealer:

"May 3rd is the official release date. You can lease the car and lease the battery. You can buy the car and lease the battery. The battery is considered to be worth $5,010.

If you buy the car and buy the battery you get a 4 year, 50,000 mile warranty. If you buy the car but lease the battery you can go up to 10 years and if it falls below 80% you get a new battery. The lease is $119 per month plus $80 per month for the battery."

http://www.smartcarofamerica.com/fo...y-lease-pricing-revealed-us-bound-cars-49101/

It's quite interesting that the battery, if directly 'purchased' limits the warranty to just 4 years versus leasing ... almost thought that just like the emissions systems on ICE cars that the Federal government mandate was something longer if car mfg's expected to sell in the U.S. but I'm sure smart is aware of it. I'm sure this attempts to take a bit of the anxiety about the battery losing its capacity to fully charge away but continuing to pay $80/month equates to $9,600 over 10 years so there has to be other terms in there to better analyze this offer.

 

[redLEAF]

No voice over but the car is immensely quiet ...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiSBf1007SE[/youtube]

 

[redLEAF]

The wait is over on the 'official' pricing, packages, etc. ... these states can order now:

CA, CT, ME, MA, MD, NJ, NY, OR, RI and VT others elsewhere this fall

http://www.smartusa.com/models/electric-drive/overview.aspx

 

[redLEAF]

Still confused over the battery warranty for the smart Ed for the Gen III; if indeed the 'standard' one is only 4 years/50K that it's at a disadvantage versus other competing EV's (of course the smart is only a 2-seater and less money). I had first thought the battery warranty was 'mandated' but only came across an old listing in CA for CARB for the hybrids that didn't plug-in at 100K but didn't see anything newer than that. Both the Volt and LEAF are 8 years and 100K miles, the Tesla S did one better at 8 years and 125K miles. This old article speculated back when Nissan was still thinking about the battery warranty and we're (current LEAF owners) still waiting on the latest replacement cost number as the battery packs are now made in the U.S.

http://www.smartusa.com/models/electric-drive/faq.aspx

http://www.investmentu.com/2010/July/electric-vehicle-warranty-wars.html

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/tesla-to-offer-eight-year-warranty-on-battery-pack/

If you opt to 'rent' your out of pocket cost is $9,600 over 10 years for a battery originally 'worth' $5,100; basically prepaying for a replacement when at least for the first 8 years, the mfg. should cover it. The car isn't that much cheaper than a LEAF to begin with so this adds to a disadvantage but of course only if you plan to keep it beyond the 4 years; the oddest thing about the battery 'rental' is that if you don't renew it -- you need to 'return' the battery (just like returning a leased car) which of course makes sense but what do you do with a car w/o a battery to run it? This whole battery rental just seems to be at odds with other EV's but that's the smart --- not mainstream.

Anyone in the CA market more familiar with the CARB rules as they pertain to EV's ? If that is a CA 'law' then smart may need to offer something unique to sell the cars there (extend the warranty to 100K miles), if not than those potential owners should read carefully before buying or leasing.

 

[LEAFer]

Anyone in the CA market more familiar with the CARB rules as they pertain to EV's ? If that is a CA 'law' then smart may need to offer something unique to sell the cars there (extend the warranty to 100K miles), if not than those potential owners should read carefully before buying or leasing.

Not in detail ... but some familiarity. The reason for the longer warranty required by CARB for the HYBRID cars is that the battery is in effect part of the vehicle's emissions system, because without the battery (or reduced capacity) you are not running as much in electric mode and cause more pollution. When it's a BEV (100% electric) the "pollution issue" (hence the warranty requirement) does not apply.

 

[redLEAF]

Anyone in the CA market more familiar with the CARB rules as they pertain to EV's ? If that is a CA 'law' then smart may need to offer something unique to sell the cars there (extend the warranty to 100K miles), if not than those potential owners should read carefully before buying or leasing.

Not in detail ... but some familiarity. The reason for the longer warranty required by CARB for the HYBRID cars is that the battery is in effect part of the vehicle's emissions system, because without the battery (or reduced capacity) you are not running as much in electric mode and cause more pollution. When it's a BEV (100% electric) the "pollution issue" (hence the warranty requirement) does not apply.

Ah, makes sense; but that logic may make it interesting for the upcoming models who will offer a gas powered 'extender' (like the new BMW i3) option --- even though I don't think that BMW would reduce the warranty on the 'pure' battery version they actually could with this logic but could NOT with the one using a gas engine (even though it's a generator --- not a true ICE like the typical hybrid).

It will be interesting once the battery pack replacement costs are generally known for the LEAF as smart has already put a price tag on theirs --- smaller car, etc. but none the less.

 

[Anonymous]

Just bought a new 2013 Smart ED from Midtown Smart / Mercedes dealer in Toronto.
Had a great experience.

Total with taxes included and Ontario rebate applied was $23,000.
Upgrades include the clear roof and Brabus silver rims.

Test drove the Smart Electric Car and was blown away by the brisk acceleration and nimble handling.
Highly recommend test driving the Electric version of the Smart Car, it is amazing!

ETA for Delivery of the vehicle is November, which gives me time to sell my old Ford.

 

[Anonymous]

Just bought a new 2013 Smart ED from Midtown Smart / Mercedes dealer in Toronto.
Total with taxes included and Ontario rebate applied was $23,000.
ETA for Delivery of the vehicle is November.

For $23,000, I did get some upgrades include the clear roof and Brabus silver rims, at about $900 more.

I test drove the Volt recently, and then test drove the Smart Electric Car this past weekend and was impressed by the brisk acceleration and nimble handling. In fact, I felt like I had more room in the Smart car, it has a surprisingly large cabin space.

I took the car up to it's top speed of 120km/h and also did some 0-60km/h sprints, and there was no drama, just quiet and smooth.

Highly recommend test driving the Electric version of the Smart Car, it is a convincing commuter car!

 

[redLEAF]

Here is an interesting twist on the battery 'rental':

http://www.autonews.com/article/20130514/BLOG06/130519950#ixzz2TNmMEzdN


"And Smart says there's another plus: "Should battery technology evolve to a new and better level from Daimler's joint venture Deutsche ACCUmotive, then owners can, with advance notice, switch their contract to the new battery pack without any change in the terms or rates of the contract."

The joint venture's battery will power the new Mercedes-Benz B-class Electric Drive car that goes on sale next year and will be the only plug-in electric wearing the three-point star. Smart is owned by Mercedes. The battery in the 2013 Smart ForTwo Electric Drive is supplied by Tesla Motors Inc."

 

[redLEAF]

some smart U.S. based dealers have these NOW

Have always liked the autotrader site as it shows dealer inventory, sometimes it's pre-orders for customers but other times it shows cars actually in stock. If anyone is in the Germantown, MD area please see if these are there! First non-launch color on a lot I've seen as well --- and its indeed a Gen III by its looks and pricing to me, they also show a 'base' car on the site but looks good in red:

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...us=0&listingId=346576825&listingIndex=1&Log=0

 

[Anonymous]

details about active or passive battery cooling.

http://smartdirect.ca/smart-electric-drive" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Go to technology section to see this quote:

"Water-cooled lithium-ion batteries manufactured by Deutsche ACCUmotive, housed between the axles in a space-saving manner. "

 

[redLEAF]

Finally posting some (although limited) sales numbers ... 60 sold in May

http://www.hybridcars.com/may-2013-dashboard/