Official VW e-Golf thread - $29,815

[edatoakrun]

I expect the BEV price war to continue, as long as gas stays cheap.

More details here:

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/08/06/2016-vw-e-golf-se-pricing/

(VW prees release)...Lowering the cost of entry to e-mobility, the 2016 e-Golf SE offers most of the features of the SEL Premium model. A 3.6 kW onboard charger is standard, but the DC Fast Charging Package (late availability) adds the 7.2 kW onboard charger with DC Fast Charging...

I wish BEV manufacturer's wouldn't couple larger chargers with DC ports in a package.

I expect many BEV buyers in areas with DC availability, wouldn't want more than a ~3.6 kW charger, if given the option just to buy the DC port.

There are exactly the same number of CCS and CHAdeMO quick chargers within 150 miles of where I live - one of each. And they happen to be at the same location (a dual-standard unit in Ithaca, NY). I think VW's disadvantage is overstated for the vast majority of the country.

The immediate problem for CCS- equipped BEV buyers, is that the CHAdeMO network, while still rudimentary, is still far more developed where most of those prospective BEV buyers live.


edit- sorry for my earlier edit showing up as a double posting.

No Idea how I managed to do that...

 

[GRA]

I went the first year with no QC at all. All the new NRG sites are primed to go dual, and if MA ever installs the promised QCs, they're supposed to be dual as well.

They aren't dual from the get-go? Once the dual-standard QCs became available (after the first 40 or so eVgo QCs in CA were installed), all the new sites have been equipped with dual-standard QCs, and the older ones had one added to their stand-alone CHAdeMO.

 

[GRA]

There are exactly the same number of CCS and CHAdeMO quick chargers within 150 miles of where I live - one of each. And they happen to be at the same location (a dual-standard unit in Ithaca, NY). I think VW's disadvantage is overstated for the vast majority of the country.

The immediate problem for CCS- equipped BEV buyers, is that the CHAdeMO network, while still rudimentary, is still far more developed where most of those prospective BEV buyers live.

Not really. If you look at Plugshare, the density of CCS is now quite good in the likely BEV states, and much of the growth in CHAdeMO is due to dual-standard QCs. Oregon and especially Washington are still lagging, but most everywhere else the access is comparable on a per-car basis.

edit- sorry for my earlier edit showing up as a double posting.

No Idea how I managed to do that...

All too easy to do with the new system. I've made posts and find myself still on the posting page, as if I hadn't hit 'submit'. I often find myself opening MNL again in another window to check if the post has appeared, before closing the first one. Soem of it may be due to mistakenly hitting 'reply with quote' instead of 'edit', but not all of them.

 

[evnow]

Not really. If you look at Plugshare, the density of CCS is now quite good in the likely BEV states, and much of the growth in CHAdeMO is due to dual-standard QCs. Oregon and especially Washington are still lagging, but most everywhere else the access is comparable on a per-car basis.

At this point - per car basis doesn't matter. What matters is the actual number of spread of QC.

 

[GRA]

Not really. If you look at Plugshare, the density of CCS is now quite good in the likely BEV states, and much of the growth in CHAdeMO is due to dual-standard QCs. Oregon and especially Washington are still lagging, but most everywhere else the access is comparable on a per-car basis.

At this point - per car basis doesn't matter. What matters is the actual number of spread of QC.

As I stated, per Plugshare the CCS coverage is looking quite good.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

I went the first year with no QC at all. All the new NRG sites are primed to go dual, and if MA ever installs the promised QCs, they're supposed to be dual as well.

They aren't dual from the get-go? Once the dual-standard QCs became available (after the first 40 or so eVgo QCs in CA were isntalled), all the new sites have been equipped with dual-standard QCs, and the older ones had one added to their stand-alone CHAdeMO.

Nope. But they have pre-wired extra pads to add CSS when they choose to. The QCs they put in are all Sumitomos with the squeeze trigger plugs.

 

[DaveEV]

They aren't dual from the get-go? Once the dual-standard QCs became available (after the first 40 or so eVgo QCs in CA were isntalled), all the new sites have been equipped with dual-standard QCs, and the older ones had one added to their stand-alone CHAdeMO.

Those dual -plug QCs likely cost a lot more than the CHAdeMO stations. In California they have to put in at least one dual-plug QC per location due their settlement. Outside of California, can you actually buy any SAE-Combo QC cars? The i3 is it?

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Outside of California, can you actually buy any SAE-Combo QC cars? The i3 is it?

We can get the eGolf SEL with the DC port here, but as of yet, only BMW is adding DC stations at their dealerships, the 20 or 25 kW Bosch units I believe.

 

[redLEAF]

Recent e-Golf road test review ... mostly favorable (especially on the accuracy of its own GOM) but this would drive me crazy as our 3 1/2 year old LEAF is very quiet and not prone to this, of course it has a bit more plastic and hard surfaces but still feels pretty solid ...

http://autoweek.com/article/green-c...emium-junkyard-scavenger-review#ixzz3iEGbCHl0

The car had some rattles and squeaks at speed that may or may not have been audible over the noise of a gasoline engine but were quite apparent with the quiet electric powertrain, and I felt a sense of low-bidderness about some of the switches and controls.

The comments from the viewer are interesting because we have a '12 Golf R in the family that for the most part reflect a pretty decent build quality, of course it has an entirely different mission ...

 

[GRA]

I went the first year with no QC at all. All the new NRG sites are primed to go dual, and if MA ever installs the promised QCs, they're supposed to be dual as well.

They aren't dual from the get-go? Once the dual-standard QCs became available (after the first 40 or so eVgo QCs in CA were isntalled), all the new sites have been equipped with dual-standard QCs, and the older ones had one added to their stand-alone CHAdeMO.

Nope. But they have pre-wired extra pads to add CSS when they choose to. The QCs they put in are all Sumitomos with the squeeze trigger plugs.

Ah, I think the dual-standard ones they've put in here are mostly if not entirely ABB Terra 53CJs.

 

[GRA]

They aren't dual from the get-go? Once the dual-standard QCs became available (after the first 40 or so eVgo QCs in CA were isntalled), all the new sites have been equipped with dual-standard QCs, and the older ones had one added to their stand-alone CHAdeMO.

Those dual -plug QCs likely cost a lot more than the CHAdeMO stations. In California they have to put in at least one dual-plug QC per location due their settlement. Outside of California, can you actually buy any SAE-Combo QC cars? The i3 is it?

The incremental cost for the extra electronics and cable shouldn't be all that much (we had considerable discussion of this some time back), compared to the base cost of the unit.

 

[GRA]

Outside of California, can you actually buy any SAE-Combo QC cars? The i3 is it?

We can get the eGolf SEL with the DC port here, but as of yet, only BMW is adding DC stations at their dealerships, the 20 or 25 kW Bosch units I believe.

Hopefully, they'll stop doing so, and avoid making the same mistake Nissan did. They did say that they and VW would be putting dual units in along the BOS-NYC-WDC corridor, but I don't know if they've done any yet.

 

[evnow]

Not really. If you look at Plugshare, the density of CCS is now quite good in the likely BEV states, and much of the growth in CHAdeMO is due to dual-standard QCs. Oregon and especially Washington are still lagging, but most everywhere else the access is comparable on a per-car basis.

At this point - per car basis doesn't matter. What matters is the actual number of spread of QC.

As I stated, per Plugshare the CCS coverage is looking quite good.

That is not what you "stated". Reread what you wrote.

My guess is there are over 50k CHAdeMO capable Leafs, less than 2k CCS. So if there are 25 times less CCS chargers - it wouldn't be too practical.

 

[GRA]

Not really. If you look at Plugshare, the density of CCS is now quite good in the likely BEV states, and much of the growth in CHAdeMO is due to dual-standard QCs. Oregon and especially Washington are still lagging, but most everywhere else the access is comparable on a per-car basis.

At this point - per car basis doesn't matter. What matters is the actual number of spread of QC.

As I stated, per Plugshare the CCS coverage is looking quite good.

That is not what you "stated". Reread what you wrote.

I did, and bolded the section you didn't.

My guess is there are over 50k CHAdeMO capable Leafs, less than 2k CCS. So if there are 25 times less CCS chargers - it wouldn't be too practical.

But there aren't 25 times less CCS, in fact the CCS deployment is well ahead of where CHAdeMO was as far as areas of coverage (as well as absolute numbers) at a similar time in its deployment, and with fewer cars, i.e. a higher total of chargers per capita. There are about 300 CCS in North America now, most placed in the major BEV markets. If anyone wants to bother, feel free to post Plugshare maps showing North American CHAdeMO and CCS, respectively. CHAdeMO is denser, as you'd expect from their greater number, but coverage is very similar. OTOH, if you compared working, unrestricted access CHAdeMO to CCS, I imagine the numbers would be pretty close to even, as so many of the early CHAdeMO have gone unmaintained or are located at dealerships with little desire to provide access to all.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Outside of California, can you actually buy any SAE-Combo QC cars? The i3 is it?

We can get the eGolf SEL with the DC port here, but as of yet, only BMW is adding DC stations at their dealerships, the 20 or 25 kW Bosch units I believe.

Hopefully, they'll stop doing so, and avoid making the same mistake Nissan did. They did say that they and VW would be putting dual units in along the BOS-NYC-WDC corridor, but I don't know if they've done any yet.

There's one under construction on 95 N in Madison CT but I don't know if it's one you mentioned or one that the CT DOT had planned. Doesn't matter really. Combo could be piggy backed at a lot of existing CHAdeMO sites and should get installed faster comparatively.

 

[evnow]

OTOH, if you compared working, unrestricted access CHAdeMO to CCS, I imagine the numbers would be pretty close to even, as so many of the early CHAdeMO have gone unmaintained or are located at dealerships with little desire to provide access to all.

You continue to evade my original comment and move goalposts.

The chargers/car doesn't matter.

 

[RonDawg]

Recent e-Golf road test review ... mostly favorable (especially on the accuracy of its own GOM) but this would drive me crazy as our 3 1/2 year old LEAF is very quiet and not prone to this, of course it has a bit more plastic and hard surfaces but still feels pretty solid ...

http://autoweek.com/article/green-c...emium-junkyard-scavenger-review#ixzz3iEGbCHl0

The car had some rattles and squeaks at speed that may or may not have been audible over the noise of a gasoline engine but were quite apparent with the quiet electric powertrain, and I felt a sense of low-bidderness about some of the switches and controls.

The comments from the viewer are interesting because we have a '12 Golf R in the family that for the most part reflect a pretty decent build quality, of course it has an entirely different mission ...

Granted I have only put a couple of hundred miles on my eGolf but I am not noticing any squeaks and rattles. I disagree that the switches/controls feel "low-bid." If anything I think the interior materials quality is better than that of the Leaf, especially the rear parcel shelf and the carpet. It could be that my 2012 model uses more aluminum in its construction than the 2013+ versions, but one thing I also noticed is that the eGolf's doors close with a nice solid thunk, like German cars typically do. My Leaf's aluminum doors feel very tinny in comparison.

 

[GRA]

OTOH, if you compared working, unrestricted access CHAdeMO to CCS, I imagine the numbers would be pretty close to even, as so many of the early CHAdeMO have gone unmaintained or are located at dealerships with little desire to provide access to all.

You continue to evade my original comment and move goalposts.

The chargers/car doesn't matter.

Okay, now you've completely lost me. The chargers/car don't matter? What the hell have we been talking about, then?!?! Chargers need to provide both coverage of an area, and adequate density within that area to supply the vehicle fleet. They also need to be adequately reliable and available. In the U.S., CCS is about equal to CHAdeMO in the first case, exceeds CHAdeMO density in the second, and appears to exceed it in the third. If this isn't what we've been discussing, then I don't have a clue what you're talking about.

 

[evnow]

Okay, now you've completely lost me. The chargers/car don't matter?

Ye s- when the # of cars are so small and there is little contention, what matters is coverage.

In the U.S., CCS is about equal to CHAdeMO in the first case, exceeds CHAdeMO density in the second, and appears to exceed it in the third. If this isn't what we've been discussing, then I don't have a clue what you're talking about.

In the NW we have about 132 CHAdeMO and 10 combo chargers . So how can the coverage be equal ?

 

[GRA]

Okay, now you've completely lost me. The chargers/car don't matter?

Ye s- when the # of cars are so small and there is little contention, what matters is coverage.

IEVS lists 11,483 i3s and 2,188 e-Golfs sold in the U.S. through last month, for 13,671, plus the 2,987 Sparks sold in 2014 and 2015 (plus a few delivered in late 2013) which might have CCS. The % of i3s and Sparks that have CCS is unknown; most of the i3s I see around here (including 3 in one day a week or so ago, my biggest total so far), are RExs so probably skip it, but whether or not the non-REx i3s are opting for CCS in large numbers I don't know. It would certainly make sense to do so in the Bay Area. So, while not LEAF/Soul/iMiEV numbers, the totals aren't negligible either.

]In the U.S., CCS is about equal to CHAdeMO in the first case, exceeds CHAdeMO density in the second, and appears to exceed it in the third. If this isn't what we've been discussing, then I don't have a clue what you're talking about.

In the NW we have about 132 CHAdeMO and 10 combo chargers . So how can the coverage be equal ?

See my earlier post, where I stated "Oregon and especially Washington are still lagging, but most everywhere else the access is comparable on a per-car basis."