Planning on buying a used 2012 Leaf with 6 bars - $5000

[LeftieBiker]

I wouldn't want to spend $11K or $11.5K on a $3K '12 + $ to replace the battery. Pass.

Why not ?

The '12 lacks the improvements made in '13, including heat pump, better cargo area layout, heater switch, SOC% display, etc. The electric parking brake is now also old enough to be less an advantage and more a potential expensive liability.

 

[SageBrush]

OP:

You have to remember two things:

1. Battery degradation will continue. If the car you are considering has lived locally then you can figure the degradation rate it has seen so far will be the future rate -- about one bar a year.

2. Your wife will likely want to avoid range anxiety, not to mention getting stranded on the side of the road with your children. The range estimates people throw out are down to an empty battery which is just not practical.

 

[SageBrush]

I wouldn't want to spend $11K or $11.5K on a $3K '12 + $ to replace the battery. Pass.

Why not ?

The '12 lacks the improvements made in '13, including heat pump, better cargo area layout, heater switch, SOC% display, etc. The electric parking brake is now also old enough to be less an advantage and more a potential expensive liability.

OP does not live in upstate NY.

Is there any reason to think the parking brake is an unreliable part ?

 

[joeriv]

I recall a number of posts about water getting into the electric brake mechanism which caused it to rust and seize up. How common this is I don’t know.

 

[utsug]

Thank you guys for all your input! Looks like the battery will hold up for 2-3 years before needing a replacement battery.
I guess I will pass on this deal. For now, wife will just continue on driving the Odyssey

So the 2013 Leaf is better because they made an improvement on cooling the battery?
Then during winter when temperature drops to a certain level, the heater will automatically start to heat the battery?

 

[utsug]

I just realized the OP is in Palmdale, CA. That's a fairly hot part of So Cal, I think. A quick Google search for palmdale weather shows high temps in the 90s or 100s for the next 7 days. At 10 pm, it's 79 F. A '12 battery will degrade very badly if the summers are like that.

Yes Palmdale is very hot during summer with average of 95F. Looks like Leaf is not a good choice after all :lol:
I currently have a PHEV (Prime) and i think that is better for my wife. At least no range anxiety but more expensive even a used one.

 

[LeftieBiker]

So the 2013 Leaf is better because they made an improvement on cooling the battery?

No. The battery chemistry was improved, starting with the April 2013 build dates. No active cooling was added.

Then during winter when temperature drops to a certain level, the heater will automatically start to heat the battery?

No. There is a separate 300 watt battery heater attached to the pack. It comes on when the pack temp (not the air temp) drops below something like 10F.

 

[utsug]

If the battery has already degraded (lets say 6 bars), the capacity is half only therefore when charging the car it only charges it half of 24kwh.

 

[SageBrush]

If the battery has already degraded (lets say 6 bars), the capacity is half only therefore when charging the car it only charges it half of 24kwh.

That is the general idea but in practice it comes out differently:

Nominal capacity when new: 24 kWh
Nissan reserve: about 2.5 kWh
Usage reserve to avoid severe range anxiety: 2.5 kWh (about 8 miles of all season range)

So when new there are 24 - 2.5 - 2.5 = 19 kWh usable
When "half" the battery is gone via degradation, 12 - 2.5 - 2.5 = 7 kWh is usable

 

[css28]

I think the EPA gives a consumption rate of 30 kWh per 100 miles (3.33 miles/kWh). 7 kWh then gives you 23.3 miles.

Driven gently, I can reliably get 4.5 - 5 miles/kWh so that would be 31.5 - 35 miles.

 

[Lothsahn]

I think the EPA gives a consumption rate of 30 kWh per 100 miles (3.33 miles/kWh). 7 kWh then gives you 23.3 miles.

Driven gently, I can reliably get 4.5 - 5 miles/kWh so that would be 31.5 - 35 miles.

FYI - It's highly unlikely you could get that economy on a 6 bar 2011/2012.

I had a 7, nearly 6 bar 2011/2012 and while 5 miles/kWh was possible, it required a lot of luck with light timing and extremely careful driving that dramatically lengthened travel time and required going far below the speed of other cars, sticking only to 35 mph roads and only in the summer.

This is because as the battery ages, two fundamental things happen:
1) Regenerative braking diminishes and is nearly eliminated
2) Internal resistance in the cells increases, increasing the amount of waste heat generated

The efficiency of a Leaf with a degraded battery pack is significantly lower than a good pack. I think a reasonable estimate would be 4.2 miles/kWh for conservative driving. Our typical range was 3.6-3.8, and 2.8 in the winter.

 

[mitrals]

Agree with Lothsahn. I have a 2012 with 8 solid bars (Just lost my 9th bar this week) and can get about 3.8-4 KWH with careful driving and about 4.5KWH in geriatric mode . The car can do about 55 miles before it hits turtle. I am in Chicago and probably planning to sell the 2012 for a 2016 as my commute might go up from 13 miles a day to 65 miles a day and I dont want to drive the gas guzzler daily.