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$$ savings is one of the many pros...I am currently driving a Yukon XL and feel like I can cover the lease payment with the gas savings alone. Two outlets in the back of our building so trickle charging is virtually guaranteed but less than 75mph in the HOV...darn! ...not sure if my lead foot can be retrained!
 
NewCalifornian said:
$$ savings is one of the many pros...I am currently driving a Yukon XL and feel like I can cover the lease payment with the gas savings alone. Two outlets in the back of our building so trickle charging is virtually guaranteed but less than 75mph in the HOV...darn! ...not sure if my lead foot can be retrained!
Your leadfoot is "re-trainable" :) (yes, it's hard to believe, but trust me/us on this.) And I doubt the diamond lane in this area allows 75mph (this isn't LA) ... what route are you taking currently (i.e. what's your starting point) ? Yes, the gas savings will be HUGE and could pay for the discounted LEAF. The savings on the EVSE are nice too, although that is not a time factor (the gas savings is -- starting next week).
 
I wouldn't wait for a 2013. The battery is going to be the exact same thing. The 2012 has heated steering wheel and seats that will get you warmed up with minimal heater use, and it just doesn't get cold enough to get a huge advantage with the 2013 heat pump.

Plus, I doubt you'll get $5000 off a 2013 !!!!

Get 15,000 or 18,000 miles in the lease. DON'T BUY.
 
NewCalifornian said:
$$ savings is one of the many pros...I am currently driving a Yukon XL and feel like I can cover the lease payment with the gas savings alone. Two outlets in the back of our building so trickle charging is virtually guaranteed but less than 75mph in the HOV...darn! ...not sure if my lead foot can be retrained!
If your 2 outlets in the back of your building are out of phase, you can buy a Quick220 (or build your own, there's a thread here on that) and have your EVSE upgrade done and get L2 charging even at work.

If your 2 120V outlets are on 20A breakers, you can even do your EVSE upgrade to 16A charging instead of 12A charging.

With L2 charging at work, you won't have to restrain your lead foot after all! ;)
 
NewCalifornian said:
el dorado hills to Natomis area (south of airport) which leads me to another question...stealing charging cables an issue for anyone? Looks like copper is in high demand for the low life's!

Have a look at this. Geoff Carson came up with a low-cost theft deterrent, and posted it in the Seattle Facebook group:

evsetheft4
 
NewCalifornian said:
Newbie that doesn't own a LEAF (yet), looking for some feedback from the seasoned pros.
PM GeorgeParrott to get in contact with folks in the local group. One of them may be willing to let you drive the commute route with them on a weekend. This link should get you started: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=9476&p=213873#p213873" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
surfingslovak said:
Have a look at this. Geoff Carson came up with a low-cost theft deterrent, and posted it in the Seattle Facebook group:

evsetheft4


Driving over the cable is only going to stop the least motivated thief. With that setup it looks like they only have to make one cut to take the whole thing. Even with the tire parked directly on the cable, cut twice and you're away with the whole thing minus about 8" of it.
 
I'd normally unreservedly concur with the recommendation to lease, given potential temperature issues in Sacramento, but having never done a lease I'd say it would depend on whether you can get one with a sufficiently high mileage allocation, and what that might cost. Allowing for vacations and holidays, if you use your car just for commuting the equivalent of 48 weeks/year, you'll be putting on 17,280 miles/year or 1,440/month. Realistically, you'll also be using the car for local errands and trips too. So a 12,000 or even 15,000 mile/year allocation isn't going to cut it, if you're paying $0.20/mile overage fee. You'd probably want a lease with at least 20k miles/year if you can get it, and you'd need to see what the residual value was and whether it was cheaper to just buy the car and keep it until it's no longer of any use to you.

Second, before you lock into a Leaf you should also consider whether any of the other available EVs might be more suitable for you. While Sacramento isn't Phoenix, it does get hot in summer and I won't be too surprised if we start to see central valley Leafs showing accelerated battery degradation ala Phoenix by the end of their second summer. You should probably also consider the Ford Focus EV (FFE), Honda Fit EV (HFE), Plug-in-Prius (PiP) and the Volt. Assuming this is primarily a commute car (you didn't mention whether this was going to be your sole car), any of these can work for you. You can read something about them in the appropriate topics of this sub-forum:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewforum.php?f=10" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To summarize, the FFE and Volt both use active, liquid-cooled Thermal Management systems (TMS), which will slow the heat-related accelerated degradation which is causing the problems in Az. and Texas. In addition, the TMS will prevent these cars from temporarily losing battery capacity in winter owing to cold (the battery is heated or cooled as necessary when the cars are plugged in), minimizing their variation in range from one season to the next. Sacramento morning commute temps are often sub-freezing, so this can definitely be a factor. With the Volt it really doesn't matter that much, as the gas engine will make up the difference if necessary.

The HFE is only available for lease, but it has the best efficiency and range on the EPA mileage cycle of any of the affordable* BEVs, 82 miles versus 76 for the FFE and 73 for the Leaf. Its active TMS is air-cooled instead of liquid-cooled and it also uses a different battery chemistry from the others, so it's unknown how well it will respond to high temps. Because it has the smallest battery with the best range, you will get more range back for each hour you charge at work, and won't need to charge as much in any case. However, neither the Fit or Focus are currently available with an L3 charging option, which isn't a problem in the Sacramento area at the moment but may well be in the future.

Given your range requirements I'd say the Volt would be a better choice than the PiP, as you can almost certainly make the trip into work on the battery, and most or all of the return trip (assuming you charge at work). The 2013 Volt will have a slightly improved battery that boosts the EPA range from 35 to 38 miles. If you do go for the Volt, unless there's some options on the 2013 that you really want and can't get on the 2012, it's probably not worth waiting, as GM is offering good deals on the 2012s now.

There's also little need to install L2 charging at home with either of the PHEVs, which will typically save you $500-2,500 depending on how much work is required and how much you pay for the charger. And if this is going to be your only car, you aren't going to be able to run up to Lake Tahoe for the day or weekend in one of the BEVs easily, anytime soon.

Finally, if you do decide on a Leaf and aren't sure whether to go with a 2012 or wait for the 2013, the 6.6 kW charger of the 2013 shouldn't be a significant advantage for commuting, but may be for general utility. If leather seats are a big deal for you you'll have to wait for the 2013s.

The big question mark is whether the new heater will be sufficiently more efficient in the temperature range you're going to be experiencing to be worth waiting for (note, using heat and defrost cuts the range down far more than using A/C). Heat pumps are definitely more efficient in moderate temps than the Leaf's current heater, but we don't know enough about the specs of the new heater to say whether that will be the case in your temps. You will undoubtedly be able to get a better deal on the 2012s as Nissan tries to clear them out (and sales have sunk owing to high-temp worries).

Anyway, more food for thought. HTH.

*I'm defining affordable as a base model MSRP of <$40k, before options or incentives.
 
^^ Sorry for sounding ignorant, but can you spell out what the HFE is? Is that Honda Fit Electric? And what is PiP?

Also, on your point about no need to install L2 at home, I think the OP said that he's moving into a new home that already has an L2 station installed from the previous owner. Even solar panels, too, if I remember correctly.
 
Volusiano said:
^^ Sorry for sounding ignorant, but can you spell out what the HFE is? Is that Honda Fit Electric? And what is PiP?
I'd imagine your guess on HFE is right. PiP is what many of us Priuschatters call the Plug-in Prius. Even the Prius Product Manager (marketing person) has adopted that nomenclature in some of her posts.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
What is range at 70 mph? Might be able to make it anyway if flat enough
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293#p101293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (Tony's range chart) might help.

http://support.google.com/earth/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=181393" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; might help w/OP w/elevation change plotting. (I learned of it here first on MNL.)

When people are talking about speeds in the Sacto area, the times I've driven through there, it seems people drive VERY fast there (usually well above the speed limit), almost LA-like. They definitely drive faster than I'm used to in the South Bay area of the SF Bay Area and would be WAY faster than people do in the Puget Sound area, in King County.

When I'm in the Sacto area... since I don't know where the speed traps are and what areas a patrolled, I tend to keep right and go not much above the speed limit. I let people go by. (This in my Prius, which is all I have, at the moment.)
 
cwerdna said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
What is range at 70 mph? Might be able to make it anyway if flat enough
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293#p101293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (Tony's range chart) might help.

http://support.google.com/earth/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=181393" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; might help w/OP w/elevation change plotting. (I learned of it here first on MNL.)

The elevation data and range can all be done with the "LEAF Energy" iPad app. That's what I did to determine a 700 feet elevation delta and 42 miles.
 
Update...the Nissan dealership is going to let me take the LEAF out for a spin for 3-4 hours tomorrow to see first hand the drain from the commute. There is also a possibililty I can have a 220V line dropped in the back of the office which I believe will give me L2 charging capabilities. The 120V is virtually guarenteed but if I could get a faster charge all the better. Having the L2 already installed in the new home is a big plus. As I mentioned earlier we have 2 other gas hogs that we will be keeping so the days I have to make extended trips I will swap cars with the wife or son (that could be an interesting debate...who gets to drive the LEAF). Still on the fence about this but I must admit I am getting stoked about the possibility! Again thanks for the valuable feedback and opions. I have been learning tons from your input.
 
NewCalifornian said:
Update...the Nissan dealership is going to let me take the LEAF out for a spin for 3-4 hours tomorrow to see first hand the drain from the commute.

I rented a Leaf from Enterprise for 3 days before buying one. That way you can let the wife try it as well. Maybe that's not such a good idea after all...


NewCalifornian said:
I will swap cars with the wife or son (that could be an interesting debate...who gets to drive the LEAF).

Ah yes, reminds me of the discussion this morning. Agreement is that the wife gets the Leaf one day a week, usually Wednesdays. I'd be driving the ICE every day without that agreement...
 
NewCalifornian said:
Update...the Nissan dealership is going to let me take the LEAF out for a spin for 3-4 hours tomorrow to see first hand the drain from the commute. There is also a possibililty I can have a 220V line dropped in the back of the office which I believe will give me L2 charging capabilities. The 120V is virtually guarenteed but if I could get a faster charge all the better. Having the L2 already installed in the new home is a big plus. As I mentioned earlier we have 2 other gas hogs that we will be keeping so the days I have to make extended trips I will swap cars with the wife or son (that could be an interesting debate...who gets to drive the LEAF). Still on the fence about this but I must admit I am getting stoked about the possibility! Again thanks for the valuable feedback and opions. I have been learning tons from your input.

Sounds Like a LEAF would work well for you.

What you will find tomorrow, I expect, is that the commute distance is no problem, if you are happy to plug-in at work most days, and you, your employer, and your utility, have no objection to fuel your LEAF, in small part, with partial-peak grid power.

Do us all a favor, though, and begin charging as soon as you get to work in the morning, especially in the Summer, and do as much of your charging at night as is convenient, even if the daytime charging is "free".

I don't believe that Sacramento is hot enough to be too much concern (would be nice to be able park in the shade, during Summer PM, if you can) but please consider that without daytime charging, the comment I posted below, on another thread, would be worth considering.


I think the real problem is is LEAF buyers whose purchase decision was "not thought out very well".

If your usual daily driving is not achievable on an 80% charge without going much below the LBW, a LEAF may not be right for you in the first place. Not because the LEAF cannot be used for longer daily travel, but because the thoughtfulness required for that level of operation, is beyond the ability of many drivers, as the use patterns of many of the bar loss LEAFs (those who have reported) illustrates.

Yes, with careful management, you probably can put 2,000 miles a month on a LEAF and still limit the time at very high and low SOC and very high temperatures (probably, even in Phoenix) which will lead to significantly shorter battery life.

I just think that the evidence is building, that not many are capable of doing this.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9539" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
L2 at work would be unnecessary, but would be handy any time you want extended range flexibility, so a nice bonus! on the test drive, be aware that you will not likely come close to the efficiency you will get as you get used to the car. typically, on the test drive and early on in ownership, folks want to "see what the car can do" and have fun with the instant torque, which by all meant do but whatever mileage you get on your commute test drive, will likely be close to the worst you will see. I would highly recommend the CWP even though you are in a moderate climate, you do get some cold whether in the winter months and anything below about 50 degrees and you will want some heat. The prewarming function helps but the heated seats and heated steering wheel are a necessity in an electric car as they are vastly more efficient at keeping you warm than using the resistive heater of the climate control, a few hundred wats vs up to 4.5kW's.

NewCalifornian said:
Update...the Nissan dealership is going to let me take the LEAF out for a spin for 3-4 hours tomorrow to see first hand the drain from the commute. There is also a possibililty I can have a 220V line dropped in the back of the office which I believe will give me L2 charging capabilities. The 120V is virtually guarenteed but if I could get a faster charge all the better. Having the L2 already installed in the new home is a big plus. As I mentioned earlier we have 2 other gas hogs that we will be keeping so the days I have to make extended trips I will swap cars with the wife or son (that could be an interesting debate...who gets to drive the LEAF). Still on the fence about this but I must admit I am getting stoked about the possibility! Again thanks for the valuable feedback and opions. I have been learning tons from your input.
 
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