Portland, OR to Tillamook, Mountainous driving affect range?

[brucedp]

I request the help of drivers for their opinions on the following:

There is currently a public forum going on about installing a Level-3
and some Level-2 EVSE in the City of Tillamook, OR. Currently the Leaf
EV is what is available for the public to purchase with a 100 mile
range. The question they posed is:


-
... Tillamook, OR is approximately 73 miles from downtown Portland.
However, there are about 15 miles of uphill highway (55mph) and 30
miles of downhill highway coming to the coast and vice versa the
other way.
What do you think about the capabilities of an EV making it here? ...
-

Checking Google Maps

http://g.co/maps/7zu45" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Portland, OR to Tillamook, OR 72.8 mi, 1.5 hour US-26 W and OR-6 W


My thinking if I had a 100 mile range Leaf, and the climb the Council
member mentioned was lets says as high as I have near me to the coast
(a ~2000 foot elevation change),
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Route_17" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

that I would not want to go directly from Portland, OR to Tillamook
http://www.milebymile.com/main/United_States/Oregon/State_6/United_States_Oregon_road_map_travel_guides.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

as that would be right on the edge of the Leaf's capabilities.

More likely, in the same the way I would top off at Los Gatos before
attacking the climb through the Santa Cruz mountains to get to the
coast, I would want to charge just before the climb away from
Portland. The nearest public EVSE are some Blink EVSE at Forest Grove:

http://recargo.com/search?search=Forest+Grove%2C+OR&commit=+++SEARCH+++" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

which would save 20 miles of range on the Leaf's 100 mile pack
http://g.co/maps/kheu5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Forest Grove, OR to Tillamook, OR 52.0 mi, 1.1 hour OR-6 W

While there would be plenty of power to climb and then use the regen
to recoup some of the energy back, not all of it would be recovered.

I am thinking, a drive directly from Portland to Tillamook would be
about 95 energy miles used, whereas a drive from Forest Grove to
Tillamook would be about 75 energy miles used.

I ask drivers:

-Do you think a Leaf EV could make it from Portland and arrive in
Tillamook having a 5 mile residual left in the pack when they connect
to a public EVSE?

-Would it be best to plan to charge at Forest grove (top off if you
will) before starting the climb?


{brucedp.150m.com}

 

[DaveEV]

My first guess: 73 miles at 55 mph with "only" 1600 ft of climbing and basically no net elevation gain/loss will be easy (use gpsvisualizer to visualize your route using google maps link). You'll easily get to your destination with room to spare (assuming minimal use of HVAC, no extra heavy loading or other factors).

On the way up - figure that every 1000 ft will use 1 bar (see range chart).

The peak of the mountain is 40 miles from Portland - at 55 mph on flat ground this will get you down to 6 bars. 1600 ft of climbing will take up another 1.6 bars taking you down to 4 bars or so.

But the rest is all down-hill. And we know that on the range chart if you have 4 bars showing you should be able to go at least 33 miles on level ground. But you'll be going down-hill. I'd venture a guess that you'll make it with at least 10 miles to spare and probably closer to 20.

If you're worried - just drive as slowly as possible which I imagine will be easy to get away with going up the hill since traffic tends to go fairly slow up hills. Every 5 mph slower than 55 mph will increase range by about 10 miles.

 

[DarkStar]

-Do you think a Leaf EV could make it from Portland and arrive in
Tillamook having a 5 mile residual left in the pack when they connect
to a public EVSE?

-Would it be best to plan to charge at Forest grove (top off if you
will) before starting the climb?

I spoke with a Leaf owner in November that made it from Hillsboro, OR, to Rockaway Beach, OR on a single charge. He stated that the Leaf stopped range estimation about 4 miles away from his home in Rockaway Beach and they pulled in without it ever going into turtle.

I live in Hillsboro and wouldn't recommend topping off in Forest Grove. It would make more sense to use one of the quick chargers being installed in Hillsboro, the one right off of Hwy 26 & Cornelius Pass Road at Fred Meyer will be the best option.

Otherwise, from there to Tillamook should be no sweat!

Google Map of route: http://g.co/maps/myfjn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Elevation Profile of route: http://image.bayimg.com/eanjaaadi.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[brucedp]

Thank you for your reply. That Leaf driver's perspective is what I was after. I have advised the council member of what you stated.

So, if I read what you said correctly, leaving with a full charge, when the Leaf driver arrives in Tillamook, they are going to want a full charge before leaving.

The City forum discussions were likely after an EV4oregon.com presentation to have both a Level-3 and some Level-2 EVSE installed at Tillamook. If they do this a boat load of $$$$$$ is gong to be spent.

From what I have gleaned off the web, EV4 rebadges (OEM) Coulomb EVSE for their purposes. So, the Level-3 would look like
http://www.coulombtech.com/blog/tag/level-3-fast-charging/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-Anyone use this Level-3 EVSE yet?
- How does it compare?

Whether a current Leaf driver or a driver with the new 2013 Leaf with the 6.6kW onboard charger, both would want to use the Level-3 EVSE to bring them up to 80% soc, and then move over to a Level-2 station to finish off the full recharge.

-What is the recharge time from 80% soc to fully charged (100%)?

I am thinking it likely averages to about a 1.65kW rate which would be about 3 hours more of Level-2 charging at that lower rate to complete the 80 to 100% soc recharge. -Is this right?

If so, the total time in Tillamook to a full recharge would be:
-20 minutes for a Level-3 to 80%, plus
- ~3 hours at Level-2 to finish the charge

Does that sound right right too?

3+ hours is not bad. I would do a day trip to my equivalent:
up over the Santa Cruz mountains to the coast for lots of fun, with plenty of things to do and see. That is likely what the City of Tillamook is thinking as well: entice drivers to come to the coast and enjoy what they have.

I also suggested that they see about having their Level-2 be fed 240VAC and not 208VAC. 208VAC takes longer to recharge. The 'check-ins' I read on recargo.com , driver state their love-attraction to 240VAC fed EVSE over 208VAC ones.

I also suggested that they see about having proper EV-Only signage and enough EV-spaces for queuing (EVs jockeying to line up to use the Level-3 or Level-2 EVSE). I figure a 1 to 3 ratio of Level-3 to Level-2 EVSE is needed (one Level-3 EVSE should have three Level-2 EVSE nearby, etc.).


I look forward to any and all responses.

{brucedp.150m.com}

 

[gbarry42]

In my experience, it takes 90 minutes to charge from 80 to 100 percent.

 

[DarkStar]

Thank you for your reply. That Leaf driver's perspective is what I was after. I have advised the council member of what you stated.

So, if I read what you said correctly, leaving with a full charge, when the Leaf driver arrives in Tillamook, they are going to want a full charge before leaving.

I agree with this conjecture. If I was making the trip, I would want to stop in Tillamook and fully charge (or get close) before leaving. DC Quick Charge (Level 3) stations would be definitely preferred.

The City forum discussions were likely after an EV4oregon.com presentation to have both a Level-3 and some Level-2 EVSE installed at Tillamook. If they do this a boat load of $$$$$$ is gong to be spent.

From what I have gleaned off the web, EV4 rebadges (OEM) Coulomb EVSE for their purposes. So, the Level-3 would look like
http://www.coulombtech.com/blog/tag/level-3-fast-charging/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-Anyone use this Level-3 EVSE yet?
- How does it compare?

I'm unaware of any installed Coulomb Level 3 stations yet... I've used a large variety and overall they all function exactly the same with just slight differences in the customer interface.

Whether a current Leaf driver or a driver with the new 2013 Leaf with the 6.6kW onboard charger, both would want to use the Level-3 EVSE to bring them up to 80% soc, and then move over to a Level-2 station to finish off the full recharge.

-What is the recharge time from 80% soc to fully charged (100%)?

I am thinking it likely averages to about a 1.65kW rate which would be about 3 hours more of Level-2 charging at that lower rate to complete the 80 to 100% soc recharge. -Is this right?

If so, the total time in Tillamook to a full recharge would be:
-20 minutes for a Level-3 to 80%, plus
- ~3 hours at Level-2 to finish the charge

Does that sound right right too?

3+ hours is not bad. I would do a day trip to my equivalent:
up over the Santa Cruz mountains to the coast for lots of fun, with plenty of things to do and see. That is likely what the City of Tillamook is thinking as well: entice drivers to come to the coast and enjoy what they have.

I also suggested that they see about having their Level-2 be fed 240VAC and not 208VAC. 208VAC takes longer to recharge. The 'check-ins' I read on recargo.com , driver state their love-attraction to 240VAC fed EVSE over 208VAC ones.

I also suggested that they see about having proper EV-Only signage and enough EV-spaces for queuing (EVs jockeying to line up to use the Level-3 or Level-2 EVSE). I figure a 1 to 3 ratio of Level-3 to Level-2 EVSE is needed (one Level-3 EVSE should have three Level-2 EVSE nearby, etc.).

First, I just wanted to clarify that it is still an unconfirmed rumor that the 2013 Nissan Leaf will include a 6.6kW charger. We are all in agreement that it would be pretty silly for it not to, but until the final specifications are released we really can't count on it.

On the DC Quick Chargers and the 2011 Nissan Leaf, it takes just about 25 minutes to go from 0% SOC to 80% SOC. If you start at 50% SOC, it takes about 20-25 minutes to get to 100%.

On Level 2 charging, I agree with gbarry42 that you can go from 80% to 100% in roughly 90 minutes. Probably sometimes less.

My experience is that most businesses/municipalities are using 240 volt service vs. 208 volt service for their charging stations.

With the West Coast Electric Highway project, all DC Quick Chargers are complimented with at least one Level 2 station. I think this is great idea that should be replicated everywhere.

For time estimation, if I was charging from 0% SOC to 100% with swapping it would take about 2 to 2.5 hours total. Without swapping (just restarting the DC Quick Charger after it stops at 80% SOC) it would take approximately 40-45 minutes to go from 0% SOC to 100% SOC. If there wasn't another vehicle waiting to charge and I was already quick charging, I would rather opt to just restart the quick charger to finish sooner to leave all charging spots open.

The one thing I have noticed is that DC Quick Charger manufacturers have gotten smart and put longer cables on their machines. This allows one machine to easily reach 2 spots, 4 if two of the spots are on the back-side of the machine.

 

[TonyWilliams]

First, I just wanted to clarify that it is still an unconfirmed rumor that the 2013 Nissan Leaf will include a 6.6kW charger.

I would say that we have it on the highest likelihood, since it was told to us by Mark Perry, Nissan's North American director of EV and Advanced Technology, on Dec 3, 2011, while present with the LEAF chief engineer, quality assurance dude, etc.

On the DC Quick Chargers and the 2011 Nissan Leaf, it takes just about 25 minutes to go from 0% SOC to 80% SOC.

No, from 17% (LBW) to 80% in 25 minutes with a +48kW DC charger.

 

[DaveEV]

In my experience, it takes 90 minutes to charge from 80 to 100 percent.

Ditto - note that this is on L2 240V/16A. Charge rate starts tapering off after 60 minutes.

People who have QCd from 80%-100% report it taking about 30 minutes.

 

[TonyWilliams]

People who have QCd from 80%-100% report it taking about 30 minutes.

0%-17% =. ???????
17%-80% = 25 minutes
80%-100%=30 minutes

 

[lmc]

Need to think of the round trip event.

As I live in Portland, the calculus on visiting Tillamook with my Leaf for the day would be not just if I could get there on a full charge, but could I then return home on a 80% charge.