Production Nissan EsFlow to Debut at Tokyo 2013!

[TomT]

Agreed. It is an interesting concept car but nothing more. It will never see production in anything remotely resembling the current version as the market would be far to small. It is of the "it's fun to look at but I wouldn't want to own one" fraternity...

That's disappointing. I was really excited about seeing a production version of the Esflow, especially if it were to be fully electric. The BladeGlider is interesting but not something i would get.

 

[TRONZ]

Re the two ^above comments I share the concerns. More specifically is Nissan being "bold" or "evasive" about actually making a performance EV? In a strange, way I think its both. EsFlow/Zeod/Bladeglider all show Nissan's strong interest in a performance EV. BUT the usual evolution towards a production vehicle is supposed to be from "wild concept" to "fully resolved". Instead Nissan is going from "fully resolved" (EsFlow) to "wild concept" (Bladeglider) while also introducing a chassis technology that may (or may not) play well with the public.

I would not be surprised if Nissan does eventually produce a sorta kinda EsFlow(ish) car but it will likely be a hybrid and replacement for the Z.

 

[gasmiser1]

I am seriously hoping for an all EV ESFLOW, with a 150-200 mile range. Nissan needs a TESLA fighter with active cooling on its motor and battery pack as iceing on the cake. And mke it with a QC port.

In the meantime, I have the 2011 LEAF for daily trips and the 2014 VOLT for extended trips which I'm enjoying.

My goal is to combine these two vehicles into one car, but not a hybrid or extended range EV.

Even with a 200 mile range, the EV will be charged to 50% for daily or every other day, then 100% on weekends.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I think that QC will be standard on any high performance EV, as it will drain the batteries so much faster than L-2 can charge them. I'd certainly lease a Blade Glider if it were affordable and could be driven safely in Winter, and I think that as with the Leaf, leasing is the key to a successful sport EV.

 

[gasmiser1]

I think that QC will be standard on any high performance EV, as it will drain the batteries so much faster than L-2 can charge them. I'd certainly lease a Blade Glider if it were affordable and could be driven safely in Winter, and I think that as with the Leaf, leasing is the key to a successful sport EV.

+1

 

[Drivesolo]

I believe that the only thing preventing Nissan from pursuing a production performance oriented EV is their batteries. They already know that a Leaf's 24kW/h pack would be useless, even a 48 kW/h pack wouldn't be sufficient assuming you would have a motor capable of 200+ hp. Bigger pack, more weight; you're doing the opposite of what Colin Chapman said. Power density in Nissan's batts have to increase, not just adding more cells. Only then will Nissan really be serious about their performance EV. There's always the option of a series-hybrid a-la ZEOD until then.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I believe that the only thing preventing Nissan from pursuing a production performance oriented EV is their batteries. They already know that a Leaf's 24kW/h pack would be useless, even a 48 kW/h pack wouldn't be sufficient assuming you would have a motor capable of 200+ hp.

If they could build the car light enough, and add just a bit more capacity (25%?) I think they could pull it off. There is a big weight and space penalty to making a car a five seater. I think that what would seal the deal would be to make QC standard, *and* put a DCQC at every Nissan dealership. That might limit sales to mainly those who live near a dealer, but that plus the diehards who don't mind having the car plugged in whenever it isn't in use (like me) should be enough for a niche EV.

 

[Drivesolo]

If they could build the car light enough, and add just a bit more capacity (25%?) I think they could pull it off. There is a big weight and space penalty to making a car a five seater. I think that what would seal the deal would be to make QC standard, *and* put a DCQC at every Nissan dealership. That might limit sales to mainly those who live near a dealer, but that plus the diehards who don't mind having the car plugged in whenever it isn't in use (like me) should be enough for a niche EV.

Nissan isn't really in the market of building niche vehicles. Their one exception in recent years in the (R35) GT-R, which is a $100k vehicle where only ~1500 are made annually. But the GT-R serves another purpose than acting as a performance flagship, it is a platform that allows Nissan (Nismo) to compete in various touring motorsports series (i.e.: Super GT) which is very important to Nissan's image.

Tesla's 85kWh batt weighs 1,323 lbs
Nissan's 24kWh batt weighs 660 lbs

There are probably a lot of threads on this forum and articles on the web that make comparisons. 25% more capacity? Sure that sounds great, but it's not gonna happen w/ the current cells Nissan is manufacturing for the Leaf. Until Nissan begins to approach the energy density of Tesla's current batts; an affordable performance BEV from Nissan is not likely. In all likelihood, the best place to look for such a vehicle, in the near future, will be from Tesla in the Model E.

 

[LeftieBiker]

25% more capacity? Sure that sounds great, but it's not gonna happen w/ the current cells Nissan is manufacturing for the Leaf. Until Nissan begins to approach the energy density of Tesla's current batts; an affordable performance BEV from Nissan is not likely.

You appear to think that I meant 25% greater energy density from the same number of cells. I didn't. I meant 25% more capacity from 25% more cells, with the space for them coming from the area behind the two seats. I thought I was pretty clear on the savings from losing the rear seating...

 

[Hedge74]

Copied from nissanusa.com

NISSAN CONCEPT ESFLOW™

I still say there is something up with them trademarking Esflow. it is the only one in the concept car section with the trade mark that isn't already done so from a previous car. I think they are trying to throw us and thier competition off with the blade Glider, then Baam!!! Esflow in Production.



Hedge

 

[Drivesolo]

You appear to think that I meant 25% greater energy density from the same number of cells. I didn't. I meant 25% more capacity from 25% more cells, with the space for them coming from the area behind the two seats. I thought I was pretty clear on the savings from losing the rear seating...

You're suggesting that adding 25% more of the current Nissan batteries will make the Nissan Leaf a sporty car? From 24 kWh to 30 kWh? It would definitely make the Leaf more usable and more desirable due to it's longer range, but it will definitely not make it more performance oriented since the increase of ~165lbs (25% of 660) would just hurt performance. Removing the back seats to make it a 2 door would require a new chassis at that point you are not talking about a Leaf (ZE01) anymore. No one considers the Leaf a performance car, it would be an illogical for Nissan to attempt to expand on the Leaf's platform in the direction of performance for many reasons. The Esflow and Bladeglider are along the lines of what Nissan is thinking for their future affordable performance EV.

 

[gasmiser1]

How about a "T" design battery pack for the ESFLOW ?

Volt has only 4 passenger due to high center consol battery pack.(not that the ESFLOW needs more than 2 seats, or 2+2(baby seats like the older Porsche 911)

 

[LeftieBiker]

You appear to think that I meant 25% greater energy density from the same number of cells. I didn't. I meant 25% more capacity from 25% more cells, with the space for them coming from the area behind the two seats. I thought I was pretty clear on the savings from losing the rear seating...

You're suggesting that adding 25% more of the current Nissan batteries will make the Nissan Leaf a sporty car? From 24 kWh to 30 kWh? It would definitely make the Leaf more usable and more desirable due to it's longer range, but it will definitely not make it more performance oriented since the increase of ~165lbs (25% of 660) would just hurt performance. Removing the back seats to make it a 2 door would require a new chassis at that point you are not talking about a Leaf (ZE01) anymore. No one considers the Leaf a performance car, it would be an illogical for Nissan to attempt to expand on the Leaf's platform in the direction of performance for many reasons. The Esflow and Bladeglider are along the lines of what Nissan is thinking for their future affordable performance EV.

Man, you just don't want to read whole posts, do you? I wasn't talking about the Leaf, but about the ESFlow. Now go ahead and misunderstand this post, too. ;-)

 

[Drivesolo]

How much is kWh are in a production Esflow? Or even the test mule? At this time there is no such vehicle. The only thing that Nissan has implied about the batts for the Esflow was that they were going to be the same as the Leaf's, and that was almost 2 years ago. Then, and now, would've been pointless since there is not enough power density in the current batts Nissan is using for it's EVs. You can't claim that adding more batts to a vehicle would be a benefit if it doesn't first exist.

 

[LeftieBiker]

You can't claim that adding more batts to a vehicle would be a benefit if it doesn't first exist.

Damn, you just fired an awful lot of design engineers...