Remote Climate Timer - am I going crazy?

[Valid8r]

I could swear that either via Carwings or in the Leaf itself, there was a way to schedule the remote climate timer such that you could specify for a given day of the week. In other words, a way to set Monday-Friday (each day) with a start time. Maybe I was dreaming? Right now it seems like you can only do this for a single day at a time...

Tell me I'm not going insane???

Jon

 

[dgpcolorado]

I could swear that either via Carwings or in the Leaf itself, there was a way to schedule the remote climate timer such that you could specify for a given day of the week. In other words, a way to set Monday-Friday (each day) with a start time. Maybe I was dreaming? Right now it seems like you can only do this for a single day at a time...

Tell me I'm not going insane???

Jon

The CC timer on the car works much like the charge timers. There are two so you can set them for different days/times. To get to them start with the "zero emissions" button on the lower right of the console. Then pick the Climate Control timer touch-screen button. Be aware that it isn't adjustable for temperature, it uses a preset 77ºF. You can experiment how long it runs before you leave however (by selecting a time after you plan to leave, for example). In mild climates ten minutes may be plenty for preheating, in severe cold you might need thirty minutes or so.

Remote CC activation by Carwings requires that the car have cell phone reception and may take several attempts before your computer/smart phone talks to the car successfully. For remote activation you can set a time for the CC system to come on or just turn it on. I don't think you can set days of the week this way, but you can set date and time for the CC system to come on later.

Hope that helps.

 

[thankyouOB]

i have been reading the manual about remote climate control and cannot determine if my battery adds charge while plugged in and pre-heating.

I typically charge to 80% overnight. it is finished by 4 am.
In the AM around 830, about 15-30 minutes before leaving on chilly or damp days, I initiate remote climate control.
it heats the cabin, but does it ADD charge beyond 10 bars to the battery?
the car is plugged in.

 

[garygid]

The heater uses energy from the Traction Battery Pack.
It can use as much as 5 kW, often 1 to 3 kW.

When charging with L1 (120v), the charging adds at most
about 1.4 kW (usually less) to the battery, so the heating
OFTEN uses more power than the L1 charging is supplying.

When charging with L2 (240v), the charging adds at most
about 3.5 kW (usually less) to the battery, so the heating
SOMETIMES uses more power than the L2 charging is supplying.

 

[Stanton]

i have been reading the manual about remote climate control and cannot determine if my battery adds charge while plugged in and pre-heating.

I have only seen the car "add a charge bar" when MANUALLY initiating pre-heat (and leaving it on too long). I have never seen it "add a charge bar" when set as timer. I know what you're getting at, so long story short: use the timer and don't worry about it. I set mine to finish right around when I leave in the morning (and it only runs for 10-20 minutes depending on how cold it is).

 

[thankyouOB]

thanks.
I am more curious, than worrying about it. you know how inquisitive we early adopters have been
i was trying to figure out if pre-heating while plugged in added incrementally to the 11th bar and was just not seeing it; as it had not crossed the threshold to add the 11th bar. also, the time-to-charge tool shows me nothing because the car already is charged to 80%.

on the earlier answer from gg, i get that heating takes less juice than 220 charging. but my question really is this: does the car turn on charging -- when set to 80% and fully charged -- if you start the pre-heat function with remote? or does it just power the heater and the battery is slack?

 

[RedMapleLeaf]

but my question really is this: does the car turn on charging -- when set to 80% and fully charged -- if you start the pre-heat function with remote? or does it just power the heater and the battery is slack?

I too am curious about this and there was some discussion about it in my first newbie post. My experience along with the comments I've read point me to the idea that the charging circuitry and climate control circuitry are intertwined, and not separate, as I initially assumed. I'm guessing that once the climate control is engaged (whether remotely via iPhone or thru the timer -- doesn't seem to matter) the car draws current from the EVSE at it's nominal fixed rate. There is no "volume control", where the car draws only the amount of current it needs according to the demands of the climate control system (more or less based on the ambient temp, etc.). So, if the amount of power transfer is fixed, then the car will either source power from or sink power into the battery via the charging circuitry if the CC demands at that point are either less or more than the EVSE is providing. This would explain why, when I use remote heating, I don't see my 80% charge erode in the garage (warmer) with my 240V L2 Schneider, but I do see it with my L2 EVSE Upgrade at work (colder) at 208V.

I am certainly prepared to be corrected on my theory above, but does explain what I'm seeing anecdotally. I haven't done exhaustive testing, mind you. Now, here's the rub: If the LEAF is charged to 100%, and you turn on CC remotely in summer to engage the (cooling) AC which requires very little power, are you forcing the battery to charge beyond 100%? If the current draw from the EVSE is in fact not modulated depending on the CC power needs for the current conditions, where does the extra power go? :?

Maybe I need to break out that CD of the Service Manual Nissan gave me...

Renny, with loins girded for the rebuttals....

 

[Deleted member 3147]

I am certainly prepared to be corrected on my theory above, but does explain what I'm seeing anecdotally. I haven't done exhaustive testing, mind you. Now, here's the rub: If the LEAF is charged to 100%, and you turn on CC remotely in summer to engage the (cooling) AC which requires very little power, are you forcing the battery to charge beyond 100%? If the current draw from the EVSE is in fact not modulated depending on the CC power needs for the current conditions, where does the extra power go? :?

Maybe I need to break out that CD of the Service Manual Nissan gave me...

Renny, with loins girded for the rebuttals....

Last winter, I routinely charged to 100% and then manually pre-heated. No battery harm seen.

We know that as the battery approaches 100%, the battery controller will taper the charge power below 3.3KW. Therefore, the charger can actually reduce the charge power below its maximum. As far as I can see, there is no reason that the battery has to charge while the remote CC is on; I actually suspect this is a bug. For whatever reason, whenever the charger is running, the battery will try to charge. However, as the total draw between the CC and battery drops below 3.3KW (or whatever is allowed by the pilot signal), the charger will actually ramp back the power. When the battery reaches 100%, the battery will stop charging and the charger will run only enough power as commanded by the CC system.

Actually, thinking about it, I'd guess the reason the battery charges is that initially on remote CC, the heater draw may exceed the charger power which pull power from the battery. Nissan probably didn't want people to lower their battery level by using CC while on charger power. Maybe what they should have done was note the battery SOC when remote CC started and only charge the battery back to that level.

Basically, Nissan has designed the system to prevent charging the battery over 100%. However, if you use the remote CC, long enough, the battery will charge to 100%, regardless of any charge timers.

 

[thankyouOB]

so far, no real answer yet to the question: when charged at 80% and plugged in, if you then engage remote climate control does that charger add charge to the battery while heating or cooling the battery?

 

[Deleted member 3147]

so far, no real answer yet to the question: when charged at 80% and plugged in, if you then engage remote climate control does that charger add charge to the battery while heating or cooling the battery?

Sorry if my response wasn't clear.

The answer is yes.

When you first engage remote CC, the heater may draw more power than the charger can supply. In this case, the battery SOC will decrease. However, once the heater loop warms up and the heater draw drops below what the charger can supply, the battery will charge. If you leave the CC on long enough, the battery will charge to 100% (though not over).

 

[thankyouOB]

thanks.
so when you start climate control remote, charging begins and the climate control draws whatever it needs with the overage going into the battery.

 

[RedMapleLeaf]

However, once the heater loop warms up and the heater draw drops below what the charger can supply, the battery will charge. If you leave the CC on long enough, the battery will charge to 100% (though not over).

I saw this today when I turned on CC remotely and left it on longer than I planned before I left work. The outside temp was also warmer than I anticipated. The charge timer was set for 80% charge, but when I got to the car I had 11 bars.

DoxyLover, your post is comforting in that the battery won't charge beyond 100%. I also agree with you that this behaviour of further charging the battery is a bug. I'm concerned because, of all the other things I may have done to my battery (before all the things I learned on MNL), I was very careful to NOT charge the battery further (top up) once I was charged to 80%. This was one of the things Nissan stated in their manual as something not to do. However, I got 4 out of 5 stars on my first year battery report on exactly this issue. I wasn't able to explain that. I'm worried that if it ever comes down to a dispute over the battery, Nissan can come back to me and point to my battery report. (I have 5/5 stars for all other categories.) It could very well have been due to this CC/charging effect.

It has also been stated on MNL to use the CC timers as then the CC doesn't stay on too long, however, I've now determined that their use causes the charger to begin way too early (i.e., 3 to 3.5 hours), and therefore leave the battery in a high SOC for longer. I wonder which is the lesser of the two evils. It seems the car is conspiring against me...

I wonder if the dealer can give me more detailed information about the battery history and the details of why/when I've allegedly been topping up.

Renny

 

[Deleted member 3147]

I don't think Nissan recommends against charging up from 80%. I think it's don't start charging if you're already above 80%. Charging routinely to 80% and then topping up when you need more range seems to be a common scenario.

In any case, RedMapleLeaf, it doesn't seem like you need to be all that concerned with your battery. I looked up your climate and you don't seem to be in a danger zone. Average high of 80F in the middle of summer in not Phoenix, AZ! I live in a probably warmer climate (San Jose, CA, USA) than you. I just got a hold of a GID meter and after 13 months and 16K miles, I still have at least 94% of 281 GIDs. I spent most of last fall/winter routinely charging to 100% (with an end timer to not stay there for very long) and often using remote climate control before leaving for work. Since around May, I've had access to charging at work so I've generally charged to 80% instead.

Bottom line, in a warmer climate than yours, I seem to be on the road to a minimal battery loss. Unless you have a reason to think otherwise, I think you are worrying unnecessarily.

 

[RedMapleLeaf]

Bottom line, in a warmer climate than yours, I seem to be on the road to a minimal battery loss. Unless you have a reason to think otherwise, I think you are worrying unnecessarily.

You're probably right. Thanks for the soothing thoughts.