Software Update

[electricvw]

Well it has been awhile since I took my car in for a checkup but finally got in for my tire rotation and cabin air filter change. I also wanted a battery test after but don't think I got that. I did however tell them to do the recall software update. That very day I saw a change in my range. Nearly if not more than 10% of what I have been getting on a daily basis commuting to and from work. I always start out at 100% charge and all 12 bars showing. I used to (before the change) get about 5 miles per bar. Sometimes I'd get a little less but by the time the second bar went away I was usually 10 to 12 miles down the road and that has always been at about 57 mph. All flat not air or heat. Since the software update I have been getting 3 bars lost at 13 miles. Once I get to work I usually have only used 4 or maybe on a worst day because of being so hot or being so cold and having to use the air or heat I'd have used 5 bars. Drive way to drive way is 22 miles. I usually get there and usually have used only 4 bars. So it should only use 4 more on the way home for a total of 8 and 4 bars remaining. I am now getting only 2 bars remaining by the time I get home. Showing only 2 red bars after 44 miles at 57 mph really sucks. This is not normal and has happened only since the software update.

Is there a way to have the old software reinstalled?

Pete

A steep percentage of distance loss right after the change, started the day it was updated, is bad news and not NORMAL. I would expect at worst a 1.6% range loss per year and that would be worst case. I don't buy a fridge only to have it crap out the day after the warranty was over. I don't expect to spend good money for a battery to do the same or worse.

Who at Nissan do I report this issue?

 

[Stoaty]

I would expect at worst a 1.6% range loss per year and that would be worst case.

Well, there is no way your expectations will be met. Most people are reporting a minimum of 5% capacity loss in the first year, with the possible exception of those in cool climates in the Northwest. Many in hot climates are losing 15% capacity in the first year. Nissan stated many times to expect 20% capacity loss in 5 years and 30% loss in 8-10 years. See the Leaf Wiki also for more detailed information:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Battery_Capacity_Loss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[electricvw]

5% in one year is not normal and not acceptable. That means that within a few years there would be NO way to drive it to work and back home without charging. I have already seen electric conversions with LiFePO4 chemistry lasting 4 years with almost zero loss in capacity. Driven daily too. My little conversion is doing better than my Leaf. WTF is that about. I love the Leaf but remember that I only saw the loss of capacity AFTER THE SOFTWARE UPDATE. WHAT IS UP WITH THE SOFTWARE UPDATE? I highly doubt that I have had any loss because it only happened starting on Thursday afternoon after the upgrade.

Answer that will ya!

Pete

I am ready to ditch the Leaf and turn over a leaf and get a jolt with a volt.

 

[Stoaty]

5% in one year is not normal and not acceptable. That means that within a few years there would be NO way to drive it to work and back home without charging. I have already seen electric conversions with LiFePO4 chemistry lasting 4 years with almost zero loss in capacity.

The Leaf uses a different battery chemistry, so that is not a good comparison. Nissan has been saying 80% remaining capacity after 5 years and 70% after 10 years for the last 3 years:

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1077805_nissans-mark-perry-were-investigating-arizonas-wilting-leafs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Stoaty]

Related thread:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=8222" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[electricvw]

I did not mention LiFePO4 as a comparison but as a better solution for future vehicles until something comes along that is better than LiFePO4 chemistry.

So if the software change now makes the LBW light come on even lower then they just built in RANGE ANXIETY for me with this crappy update. I have never had the LBW ever come on. EVER. Now I am on the edge and concerned that my range will be nill before I begin my drive. Hell. I only drive 45 miles average daily and it is nearly all flat but it is freeway or hwy at 55 to 57 mph the entire trip except a total of 4 in town miles from the freeway to the Hospital. My drive is nearly the same every day and very little deviates from that drive. I can say that cold does affect the distance so now when it gets cold I will be hanging on the last vestige of a single red bar while I drive the last remaining 4 miles to my home and knowing I will really have no distance like it used to show me after my daily drive to and from work. I usually have even after a cold or very hot day at least 26 miles remaining but when it says I only have like 13 miles left I wonder what the HELL is going on.

Do they REALLY WANT US to have RANGE ANXIETY? With this the way it is now I DO. I remember that I could jet into town after my daily commute and still have 13 miles remaining. Now I don't.

THIS JUST FRIGGING BITES.

Actually we really should be getting 100 miles since they said it was possible. Well maybe but not in this country. We don't drive 5 mile distances. We drive fast and far in this country.

I can accept 73 or 75 miles which I had been getting but when I am in the red now that I get home the GAME HAS CHANGED.

IT IS TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE. TOTALLY.

 

[Stoaty]

What is your location? What mixture of charging to 80%/100%? Summer temps? How long have you owned your Leaf.

If in fact it is just a software update, then you have exactly the same range as you had before. The numbers are just different.

 

[saintyohann]

I'm kind of in the same boat as you, but worse. When I got the update my car started to randomly freak out. I did notice that the bars drop faster to begin with but the lower bars last longer (so it's no longer linear, but my final range is about the same, still scary and with no notice of the change from Nissan).

I wrote something much longer, but I didn't want to threadcap, so I'll start a different one.

 

[electricvw]

Marysville California and I have had the car just over a year and I have just over 16,000 miles and always drive in power mode because there is no end of the day difference between power and eco. I always charge to 100% because I plug in as soon as I get home because I may want to go into town later and the only true way to do 80% is with using the a timer. Timers don't work for me. Temps can get to and have gotten to 113 already this summer. But like I said it was a sudden change the day of the software update. It is very obvious that its the software but when your driving and you have always been well above the two red bars and now your on the red bars and its saying you have less than before then something is totally WRONG WITH THE UPGRADE.

UP TILL THURSDAY WHEN THEY DID THE UPGRADE I HAVE SEEN NO LOSS. PERIOD.

I plan my drive and after work errands on what my range is. Now I really can't do any thing after work except to go home. Now I will worry about turning on my air or heat. LIKE I SAID. IT IS TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE.

 

[Stoaty]

UP TILL THURSDAY WHEN THEY DID THE UPGRADE I HAVE SEEN NO LOSS. PERIOD.

I plan my drive and after work errands on what my range is. Now I really can't do any thing after work except to go home. Now I will worry about turning on my air or heat. LIKE I SAID. IT IS TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE.

I would suggest checking with the dealer who did the upgrade to find out if the upgrade changed the way the range estimate (the "Guess-o-meter") reports range, and if it changed the way the fuel bars display. If so, all you need to do is to adjust your expectations to the "new normal" shown on the meter. If not, have the dealer check out your Leaf.

 

[Nekota]

Is there a way to identify this update? Maybe Nissan has updated the software recently and it's different from what was in use in June or July?

 

[electricvw]

News travels fast and its unlikely that it is different and no one else knows about it.

 

[davewill]

How old is your car? One of the early updates (April or May 2011) greatly changed the way the bars behaved, reserving capacity at the low end of the bars. This sounds like that update. If that's the case you will just have to get used to the fact that there's significant capacity still available after the bars are gone.

 

[electricvw]

My car is number 3377

Well I decided to do my commute totally on cruise and no heat or air today and had set my cruise to 55 mph for the entire freeway distance. Total distance was 44.6 miles and showing 29 miles remaining and 4 bars. Jeeze this Guess O Meter thing is really sucky. Just that alone can keep folks away from these cars. It is just not good enough compared to a fuel tank. My take and what I tell folks is if you are interested in one then be sure your normal driving is less than 40 miles freeway. If most of your driving is intercity then your good to go. But if you need like 60 miles you need an electric that can actually get you that in a single round trip in the worst case. So worst case is dead of winter and a capacity loss of 20%. If you can't do that then its not good enough yet. It is only not good enough because the capacity loss is too great and the pack size it WAY to small. At minimum you should have a pack that is at least 35kWh or 45kWh in size. Then you can begin to fill the niche for those who might be interested and prices in the upper normal car range.

I love my Leaf but it is not ready for PRIME TIME YET.

 

[Boomer23]

UP TILL THURSDAY WHEN THEY DID THE UPGRADE I HAVE SEEN NO LOSS. PERIOD.

I plan my drive and after work errands on what my range is. Now I really can't do any thing after work except to go home. Now I will worry about turning on my air or heat. LIKE I SAID. IT IS TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE.

I would suggest checking with the dealer who did the upgrade to find out if the upgrade changed the way the range estimate (the "Guess-o-meter") reports range, and if it changed the way the fuel bars display. If so, all you need to do is to adjust your expectations to the "new normal" shown on the meter. If not, have the dealer check out your Leaf.

Correct. Nissan has updated the software at least twice IIRC to be more conservative and to give more warning before the car actually enters Low Battery Warning (LBW) and below. They did this because some of the early LEAF drivers were depending on the car's range estimate literally and were running out of charge before reaching destination. Nissan responded by making the remaining range display (the GOM) more pessimistic in software updates. Your car hasn't lost range suddenly after the software update, it's just that your dash shows fewer bars remaining at the same battery charge.

AFAIK the LBW and VLBW warnings still occur at the same charge levels as before the software updates. You might want to check out Tony Williams' range charts, link found in his signature on any of his posts. You'll see how much range remains at LBW with a new battery and with one that is somewhat degraded. Run your LEAF down to LBW and add your miles already driven to the miles that Tony's chart says are remaining at LBW. That will give you an idea of your current available range.

I recommend getting a Gid meter, which will show approximately the percentage of charge remaining on a continuous basis. Those of us with one of these handy meters are un-fazed by changes in the GOM or the bars caused by software updates, since we can see that the charge percentage remains unchanged.

In addition, for actual range loss caused by battery aging and ambient heat, the Gid meter will detect this by showing a lower charge percentage at 100% or 80% charge as the battery ages and capacity drops. My car is 18 months old, has lost at least 13% range capacity, but I'm not upset because I can still do more than 70 miles at full charge at 4 mi/kWh economy and with my Gid meter, I have confidence in when I really need to be concerned about low charge, like down around 10% charge or less.

(Edit: credit to Ray for a spelling note, now fixed)

 

[DaveEV]

I know that my GOM/DTE indicator was a bit wonky after the software update, but seems to have stabilized now.

You might try taking the car down to VLBW and then charging to 100% - that might help calibrate the computer.

For sure - at a constant speed of < 60 mph in good weather you should get at least 60 miles before LBW...

 

[Stanton]

Why can't we just get the actual update posted and compare with what's available?

Here's a link to that thread http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=5176" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's all speculation until we figure out WHICH software load(s) we're talking about. It's making me NOT want to go in for my 1-year battery check since I know they're going to install any software updates (even if I ask them not to).

 

[Stoaty]

Why can't we just get the actual update posted and compare with what's available? I believe there was an old thread with the procedure to list ALL software version numbers, but it's probably in the Wiki too. Never-the-less, it's all speculation until we figure out WHICH software load(s) we're talking about. It's making me NOT want to go in for my 1-year battery check since I know they're going to install any software updates (even if I ask them not to).

I don't think that will be a problem. Just insist that they not install it, put it on the work order NOT to do it. Takes time to do it, so skipping it will save them time. The dealer was very accomodating for me and put "customer declines software update" on the work order.

 

[jkirkebo]

I would advise anyone driving on the edge of the Leafs range to get a SOC meter. It is much better to actually see the battery SOC instead of "fuel bars" and the GOM. After getting mine, I never pay any attention to the bars/GOM at all.

 

[Deleted member 3147]

I would advise anyone driving on the edge of the Leafs range to get a SOC meter. It is much better to actually see the battery SOC instead of "fuel bars" and the GOM. After getting mine, I never pay any attention to the bars/GOM at all.

I just with Phil would hurry up with his LeafScan. I'm having a hard time spending ~$200 for a GIDMeter with it coming out.