The Super Storm and our LEAFing friends back East

[DaveinOlyWA]

Here’s Why There’s No Gas In The Northeast

On this last point, we heard from a former oil analyst who added some details:
It requires electricity to run a refinery, open ports to offload barges, and electricity to pump gas. Major major infrastructure issue. Generators add to demand but they don't use up high-test. And yes you can't run a gas station without power.

And I thought that most of the electricity used by a refinery was produced from crude oil itself. Apparently, that's not the case.

due to fact that refinery heats, cooks, boils etc. they do use a lot of the by products for that so in a sense, they are somewhat self serving but its like my "gas" furnace with its electric forced air blower....no electricity, no heat.

several NJ cities are now siphoning the city fleet to keep emergency vehicles going...

now, have posted this before and have to repost it again...

final episode, season 2 of "Walking Dead" the CDC admin in facility that was about to self destruct due to impending power loss because the generators were running out of fuel.

"Our society is completely dependent on oil; How dumb is that?"

 

[Herm]

The Chademo port option is perfect. The car won't have to be on, which is a HUGE waste of power. 200w phantom load * 24 hours = almost 5kWh wasted of 21kWh available in a new, warm battery.

You have to power the can bus, the BMS and you have to enable the contactors inside the battery.. by definition it has to be powered externally to do all that... but 200W sounds like a lot, perhaps it can be pared down.

 

[Ingineer]

Yes, you do have to have it "on", and in drive mode (with parking brake applied).

You DO NOT have to have the car in Drive! This a really bad idea! The Leaf only needs to be in "ready" mode (Green Leaf Icon lit in the middle of the Cluster), which is accessed by a standard power-up with your foot on the brake.

It would be a good idea to pull the accessory relay, as this would power down the head unit and several other devices, and save a lot of extra power.

Also: I noticed from the pictures that people are connecting inverters without proper fusing. It's important from a safety standpoint to have a fuse on the positive terminal of the battery, as an inverter failure or wiring short could cause and explosion and/or fire. I've seen a number of cheap Chinese inverters burst into flames, you don't want your Leaf in the news burnt to a crisp, so use a fuse!

-Phil

 

[Ingineer]

Exactly. Or at least that's what I thought until I revisited this YouTube video. Apparently, the Power Box needs an auxiliary 12V power supply. I would hate to turn on the car for that, but if I remember correctly you can get away by pushing the start button once, which won't start all the dash instruments?

The 12v is only needed as a bootstrap, so it draws negligible power. You wouldn't need to power up the car for that, but in the Leaf, the 12v "lighter" aux port is switched, so the best solution would be to get a set of fused clip leads and connect the negative to shiny metal, and the positive to the Leaf's 12v battery. This way the Leaf could remain "off".

However, as soon as CHAdeMO is enabled, it will start most of the Leaf's systems, including the DC-DC converter, so there is no free lunch here. Though, it's nowhere near as bad as a fully ready Leaf. The main reason is the LBC (Battery controller) and the VCM (Vehicle Controller) must be powered up in order to monitor and protect the battery pack, as well as close the relays that enable power out of the pack.

-Phil

 

[rumpole]

What I would like to see, with all due respect to Leaf-At-Home, which is a fine idea, is either a) an easy connection point for an external inverter, or b) an optional inverter built into the car.

In case you missed the reference upthread, Leaf owners could presumably get the MiEV power Box, which can supply up to 1.5 kW through the CHAdeMO port. It would be nice if Nissan embraced this idea and distributed a Leaf-branded unit. It's an important use case for any EV, and we discussed the very same topic in the BMW owners forum as well.

Thanks, I indeed wasn't aware of the Miev Box. What a great idea! And, if it's Chademo and 12V, it should run on the Leaf already, unless it communicates in some proprietary way with the iMiev computer. A box like this is simple enough for anyone to use, the only issue would be making it rugged enough to withstand the overloading people would subject it to. But, to power the fridge for a few days while you're waiting for power to come back, it's ideal.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

This is exactly what I'm hearing from my family. Escalating prices, long lines, many gas stations are pumped dry, others still don't have power to pump what gas they have. Fights have broken out to the point that police had to intervene.

In an attempt to get people thinking, I mentioned that there ARE alternatives available, but I just get condescending remarks about how "real cars burn gas". It's annoying when you read it on the news. It's infuriating when it's your own family.

Yeah, any more if people ask I'm happy to tell them of my experiences, but I've made my peace with trying to convince them. Without a ready supply of gas, those "real cars" quickly become lawn ornaments.

The power will be restored and the gas stations will reopen, but hurricanes give you a glimpse of what it will be like if (or more likely when) we see a real interruption in gas supply. Society will come unhinged in a matter of days, if not hours.

 

[rumpole]

Yes, you do have to have it "on", and in drive mode (with parking brake applied).

You DO NOT have to have the car in Drive! This a really bad idea! The Leaf only needs to be in "ready" mode (Green Leaf Icon lit in the middle of the Cluster), which is accessed by a standard power-up with your foot on the brake.

It would be a good idea to pull the accessory relay, as this would power down the head unit and several other devices, and save a lot of extra power.

Also: I noticed from the pictures that people are connecting inverters without proper fusing. It's important from a safety standpoint to have a fuse on the positive terminal of the battery, as an inverter failure or wiring short could cause and explosion and/or fire. I've seen a number of cheap Chinese inverters burst into flames, you don't want your Leaf in the news burnt to a crisp, so use a fuse!

-Phil

You DO NOT have to have the car in Drive!

Sorry, my mistake. It's in "drive mode", not Drive. What I meant by "drive mode" was the green car icon illuminated on the dash. I should have expressly said so.

How big a fuse is needed in series in the positive wire?

 

[DaveEV]

Also: I noticed from the pictures that people are connecting inverters without proper fusing.

For those who intend to use this feature frequently, it'd be easy to wire up a heavy duty anderson connector (fuse the postiive lead) so plugging in the inverter is is plug-and-play. There are anderson connectors that handle hundreds of amps and you can get them with a dust-cover so the terminals aren't exposed at all when not plugged in.

Because of the relatively high vampire load of the LEAF when on and when in a situation where you want to be able to run a fridge for as long as possible, I might suggest only powering the fridge for as long as it takes to cool it off, then turn everything off for a couple hours or until it starts warming up again. This could easily extend your run-time by a significant amount.

For those who also have a Prius or similar hybrid, as long as you have gas you can also run an inverter in a similar manner without much gas consumption.

 

[Ingineer]

Sorry, my mistake. It's in "drive mode", not Drive. What I meant by "drive mode" was the green car icon illuminated on the dash. I should have expressly said so.

How big a fuse is needed in series in the positive wire?

As I mentioned, this is called "Ready" not "Drive Mode". Incorrectly terming it drive causes confusion.

The fuse amperage is determined by the inverter size. If you have a 1000w inverter, I recommend a 100A fuse, such as this one.

-Phil

 

[essaunders]

Sorry, my mistake. It's in "drive mode", not Drive. What I meant by "drive mode" was the green car icon illuminated on the dash. I should have expressly said so.

How big a fuse is needed in series in the positive wire?

As I mentioned, this is called "Ready" not "Drive Mode". Incorrectly terming it drive causes confusion.

The fuse amperage is determined by the inverter size. If you have a 1000w inverter, I recommend a 100A fuse, such as this one.

-Phil

Phil,
I found documentation of someone who wired a 1kw inverter to his GenII prius and used a 40A fuse. His logic was he wanted 'his' fuse to blow before the DC-DC converter fuse blew. You've stated in the past the LEAF DC-DC converter is 135A. Is the 35A differential enough? (or do we simply rely on the 1kw continuous rating of the inverter being less than the LEAF converter)?

Thanks for all the info - I'm trying to piece together a system that I can use on either a Prius or LEAF....

 

[davewill]

What I would like to see, with all due respect to Leaf-At-Home, which is a fine idea, is either a) an easy connection point for an external inverter, or b) an optional inverter built into the car.

In case you missed the reference upthread, Leaf owners could presumably get the MiEV power Box, which can supply up to 1.5 kW through the CHAdeMO port. It would be nice if Nissan embraced this idea and distributed a Leaf-branded unit. It's an important use case for any EV, and we discussed the very same topic in the BMW owners forum as well.

Thanks, I indeed wasn't aware of the Miev Box. What a great idea! And, if it's Chademo and 12V, it should run on the Leaf already, unless it communicates in some proprietary way with the iMiev computer. A box like this is simple enough for anyone to use, the only issue would be making it rugged enough to withstand the overloading people would subject it to. But, to power the fridge for a few days while you're waiting for power to come back, it's ideal.

I'm pretty sure we found out that the Mitsubishi box was proprietary to the "i" and wouldn't work on the LEAF. Apparently the protocol to close the contactors for pulling power through the port isn't standardized.

 

[surfingslovak]

I'm pretty sure we found out that the Mitsubishi box was proprietary to the "i" and wouldn't work on the LEAF. Apparently the protocol to close the contactors for pulling power through the port isn't standardized.

I don't recall, and can't make a qualified statement either way. I would hope that such a device would work on all CHAdeMO cars. After all, that's what protocols are supposed to be for. Unfortunately, I too have seen proprietary 'extensions' and other non-standard ways of doing things over the years.

"Our society is completely dependent on oil; how dumb is that?"

We get reminded of that every day, and it's not just cars. Look at all the plastics around you.

 

[abasile]

"Our society is completely dependent on oil; how dumb is that?"

We get reminded of that every day, and it's not just cars. Look at all the plastics around you.

Using oil for plastics is not such a bad thing. It is much better than combusting it...

 

[JeremyW]

I'm pretty sure we found out that the Mitsubishi box was proprietary to the "i" and wouldn't work on the LEAF. Apparently the protocol to close the contactors for pulling power through the port isn't standardized.

I don't recall, and can't make a qualified statement either way. I would hope that such a device would work on all CHAdeMO cars. After all, that's what protocols are supposed to be for. Unfortunately, I too have seen proprietary 'extensions' and other non-standard ways of doing things over the years.

I believe the CHAdeMO 1.0 spec addresses this. The leaf is (currently) 0.9 spec which does not mention pulling power out of the pack. I seem to remember on a Japanese website someone mentioning a firmware update is needed to use the leaf to home system. I asked a Mitsubishi rep at EVS 26 and he said the i-Miev also needs a firmware update to use the Power Box.

There's also something in the paper-thin warranty about not using the leaf as a power source. :lol:

 

[surfingslovak]

There's also something in the paper-thin warranty about not using the leaf as a power source. :lol:

What, would it void our battery capacity warranty if we did? :lol:

 

[TonyWilliams]

I'm pretty sure we found out that the Mitsubishi box was proprietary to the "i" and wouldn't work on the LEAF. Apparently the protocol to close the contactors for pulling power through the port isn't standardized.

Chademo Version 1.09 versus 1.10.

LEAF is 1.09

 

[cwerdna]

How big a fuse is needed in series in the positive wire?

As I mentioned, this is called "Ready" not "Drive Mode". Incorrectly terming it drive causes confusion.

The fuse amperage is determined by the inverter size. If you have a 1000w inverter, I recommend a 100A fuse, such as this one.

Have any recommendations of how to run that (or a) fuse inline (e.g. a holder w/terminals) or something like that? I've also heard strong recommendations on Priuschat about putting in a fuse. My cheap 400 watt Coleman inverter has a fuse, but it sounds like that might not be good enough. It came w/some wires and clamps that I need to dig up as an alternative to cigarette lighter.

Cigarette lighter is obviously a bad idea for big loads due not very high max current allowed by the lighter outlet.

 

[DaveEV]

Have any recommendations of how to run that (or a) fuse inline (e.g. a holder w/terminals) or something like that?

Amazon says that that fuse is often bought with this holder: http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-7720-Safety-Block/dp/B004T1VYLA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[cwerdna]

Have any recommendations of how to run that (or a) fuse inline (e.g. a holder w/terminals) or something like that?

Amazon says that that fuse is often bought with this holder: http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-7720-Safety-Block/dp/B004T1VYLA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seems a bit pricey. I wonder if http://www.amazon.com/Scosche-EWFH-Single-Fuse-Holder/dp/B000KIR8M0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; will do along w/some of the 100 amp ANL fuses I see (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Delectronics&field-keywords=anl+fuse+100+amp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false. I guess I'd also need another wire w/eyelets. I know nothing about these fuse types.

My cheapo inverter (will probably buy a better one) has clamps w/wires and eyelets to attach to the inverter.

 

[RegGuheert]

Also: I noticed from the pictures that people are connecting inverters without proper fusing. It's important from a safety standpoint to have a fuse on the positive terminal of the battery, as an inverter failure or wiring short could cause and explosion and/or fire. I've seen a number of cheap Chinese inverters burst into flames, you don't want your Leaf in the news burnt to a crisp, so use a fuse!

Thanks for the tip, Phil! Agreed! I do have a 100A (150A?) fuse and holder on the positive lead of my 1000W inverter, but the fuse on the 400W inverter is in the unit. Of course none of this helps when I have jumper cables running to an external battery.

Thanks to drees and cwerdna for the tips on cheap fuses and holders. I think I bought mine quite a few years ago at a local car stereo store. While they weren't cheap, the price was much better than most alternative energy or boating supply stores wanted. Fortunately 12V fusing is much cheaper than fusing for higher voltages.

What I would really like to do is install a 1000W sine-wave inveter permantly under the hood. I have a 2000VA Outback sine-wave inverter which is rugged enough for the task, but it is massive and simply will not fit. Given that Phil have installed a 3300W converter (charger) under his hood, perhaps he or someone else has managed to find an inverter that will fit in there. Or perhaps someone will engineer a kit which is purpose made...